Weaving Big Disc
- Thread starter warksfarmer
- Start date
dead right - 99% of problems I had growing wheat after potatoes were down to over cultivation with hindsight
warksfarmer
Member
18.5cm row spacing.
it is quite wide then at close to 8.5" although not a bad thing, I quite like the idea of 10" and @dontknowanything 10" crop I saw last week looked great to my eye
warksfarmer
Member
I suppose it is quite wide but thats a good thing if your no tilling as its less soil disturbance?
its a matter of opinion really I guess - wider rows help trash clearance and disturb less soil but there is a point where too wide might just impact yield, allow more wed growth via less competition / ground cover or increase evaporation , some good Tag data and trial work on this
row width:
up to 25 cm more than 10 t/ha wheat is no problem. Shown on many ocasions by Vaederstad tine drill
weed growth:
oh my dear Clive. I though you where talking about No Till with cover 6 no disturbance? Where should the weed seed get a impact on emerging? Light is, to be reminded, the trigger for germination. A millisecond is enough, even for the rhizomes for couch grass.
increase evaporation: same as weed emergence.
Looking forward to see the TAG data.
York-Th.
Old John
Member
- Location
- N E Suffolk
Read something a few years ago, from Denmark, where they were thinking of hoeing wheat, that you could go to 14" without yield loss. Seems pretty wide to me?
dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
It does look very visually pleasing. Will be very interested to see how it yields.
As I said it's very much a matter of opinion, I didn't actually say where my preference was
H.Jackson
Member
- Location
- West Sussex
Agronomist was amazed in the difference oats drilled with big discounts few volunteer oats horsch drilled loads.
Visually doesn't seem a wide spacing feel confident it wouldn't impair spring barley, just need a little fert in the row.
Visually doesn't seem a wide spacing feel confident it wouldn't impair spring barley, just need a little fert in the row.
mikep
Member
- Location
- Arse end of Surrey, UK
From what I can see most of the research vis. row widths for WW seem to pivot about 12". Usually no difference up to there, trouble is none seem to say what width of the wheat row is in these trials whether band or straight row so I assume normal?
dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
Where is this research?
SorenIlsoe
Member
- Location
- Fjenneslev, Denmark
Agree with mikep! Band width is important but is not always told. High seed rate in 25 cm rows will result in plants standing very close to each other!
I think higher row spacing with the right seed rat will give the plants more sunlight and there will be a better climate between the rows causing less septoria pressure.
Look back to the trail this summer at Clives field: the Dale and Seed Hawk drills did some equal results compared to the other drills.
Amazone has a report about row spacing in wheat.
It's in german, but the graphs should be telling the most important.
Page 13: By early drilling 25 cm row should loose 3% at high yields of 12,5 t/ha plowed.
(I would be happy to "just" have 97% of 12,5 t!!!)
A late drilling the plowed yield was 11,4 t/ha and 25 cm row was 92% of that.
But it is all after plowing - so we can not use it very much!
http://www.amazone.de/files/Vortrag...Chancen_und_Grenzen_Stefan_Kiefer_AMAZONE.pdf
One of my users of GEN openers made a little trial this harvest with his 25 cm row drill.
Parcels was drilled with 1,5" band openers and 6" band - but both in 25 cm row space.
It was harvested and weighed with a real trial harvester because he is host to a trial for the farmers organisation, so they did this for him.
There was 25 ears less per m2 in the 1,5" bands, but the yield was 9,9 t/ha in it and it was 9,3 t/ha in the wide 6" bands.
I think higher row spacing with the right seed rat will give the plants more sunlight and there will be a better climate between the rows causing less septoria pressure.
Look back to the trail this summer at Clives field: the Dale and Seed Hawk drills did some equal results compared to the other drills.
Amazone has a report about row spacing in wheat.
It's in german, but the graphs should be telling the most important.
Page 13: By early drilling 25 cm row should loose 3% at high yields of 12,5 t/ha plowed.
(I would be happy to "just" have 97% of 12,5 t!!!)
A late drilling the plowed yield was 11,4 t/ha and 25 cm row was 92% of that.
But it is all after plowing - so we can not use it very much!
http://www.amazone.de/files/Vortrag...Chancen_und_Grenzen_Stefan_Kiefer_AMAZONE.pdf
One of my users of GEN openers made a little trial this harvest with his 25 cm row drill.
Parcels was drilled with 1,5" band openers and 6" band - but both in 25 cm row space.
It was harvested and weighed with a real trial harvester because he is host to a trial for the farmers organisation, so they did this for him.
There was 25 ears less per m2 in the 1,5" bands, but the yield was 9,9 t/ha in it and it was 9,3 t/ha in the wide 6" bands.
dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
I'm not sure how much of the NIAB TAG data I'm allowed to talk about with non members... But their results about reducing seed rates in wide rows were counterintuitive (to me anyway)
[don't reduce them]
[don't reduce them]
Hartwig
Member
- Location
- Scheggerott, Germany
Soren, do you see a benefit with the new GENs with 2 rows / bands on each side of the 25cm rows regarding competition, high seed rates, etc. ??
How wide is the spacing exactly ?? 5cm between the two sides and then 15 cm from one row to the next ??
warksfarmer
Member
We will have 12.5cm and 18.5cm in the same field this year at the same seed rate of 270kg/ha as a comparison.
SorenIlsoe
Member
- Location
- Fjenneslev, Denmark
It depends: in cultivated and loose soil it is the widest bands, and in DD and especially under wet conditions, it is more narrow. But typically is the bands from 5-7 cm wide.
The benefits? More space to plants than with the 1" opener, but less space than with the 6" opener.
The GEN200 4" and 1" can handle all stones! The GEN200 6" broke in stony soils.
Less soil disturbance with GEN400, but I think it would be reduced with discs in front.
Pictures: first 3: DD with 4" after beans. Last picture is after spring barley in very wet conditions Sept. 29th. Picture from October 8th.
Attachments
Same drill spaced differently or 2 different drills ?
Will be interested in the results of that as I think row width might make big differences on some soils
yellow belly
Member
- Location
- south west lincolnshire
the weaving does leave a narrow seed row with little banding compared to tine or hoe coulters
doing a trial at double row spacing would be simple but to change from 12.5 to 18.5 would take a while to do
drilling east west or north south may have the same effect as may slower drilling
I find that in harder conditions the coulters drill closer in paires because the force on the right hand front row of coulter closes the gap to the rear left hand coulters
this also happens with the moore drill
in cultivated ground this is less so
moving the coulters on the tool bar to counter this closer pairing is an option
doing a trial at double row spacing would be simple but to change from 12.5 to 18.5 would take a while to do
drilling east west or north south may have the same effect as may slower drilling
I find that in harder conditions the coulters drill closer in paires because the force on the right hand front row of coulter closes the gap to the rear left hand coulters
this also happens with the moore drill
in cultivated ground this is less so
moving the coulters on the tool bar to counter this closer pairing is an option