what are rules using red diesel in tractor when it should be white?

[startinghandle]

there is a purge in Mid Wales or is it happening through the country where police are impounding tractors for running on red diesel when white should be used... a local reputable contractor is one of many who has had to pay a considerable sum of money to have is tractor returned from a compound and not only tractors a telehandler has also been confiscated
a farmer who has had a number of sheep stolen and when he reported the incident to waited nearly 2 weeks before the police turned up on his yard used some very strong words to describe the situation

 

[Selectamatic]

As far as I'm concerned, if it's a tractor, it goes on red, if it is a Pick Up, it's white.

Never mind chasing farmers and dipping tractor tanks, it's vans, Land Rovers, cars, pickups etc etc that ruin it for us.

 

[Goweresque]

The rules are all here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...uel-for-road-vehicles#memorandum-of-agreement

Its entirely possible (given my bit of family and friends based knowledge of how things appear to work in the wilds of Wales) that quite a few contractors and/or farmers are not adhering 100% to the relevant rules on red diesel usage, and that the law is slowly beginning to catch up with them.

 

[multi power]

A tractor is agricultural, red diesel is for agricultural use its simple

 

[mo!]

A tractor is agricultural, red diesel is for agricultural use its simple

If a tractor is cutting a playing field then it isn't agricultural is it. That's why it's not simple.

 

[sawdust]

Even a diesel motor boat that is for pleasure only is technically meant to run on white too. It's rebated fuel for a reason.

 

[sawdust]

A tractor is agricultural, red diesel is for agricultural use its simple

So where does forestry and construction fit into that category?

 

[multi power]

So where does forestry and construction fit into that category?

I believe forestry is included in agriculture
Construction I have no idea

 

[Goweresque]

A tractor is agricultural, red diesel is for agricultural use its simple

Not that simple. If you own a tractor and a livestock box, shifting your cattle/sheep to and from land you control on red is fine, shifting livestock for your neighbour is not, its hire and reward. Tractors can be used on all manner of jobs that aren't agricultural - local to me the water company have been putting in a large water main, and use tractors to move stuff around between sites. Thats not agricultural, and I assume they all would have to run on white, and maybe have tachos as well.

 

[sawdust]

BIL fitted duel fuel systems to 3 lorrys at £10000 a pop for off road forestry and wind farm work, till vosa decided to dip the off road tank and deemed it ilegal to run on the queens highway with 2 tanks of different fuel, even though the system was fitted with a full white fuel purge to ensure no rebated fuel could be in the system whilst on public road, so 30k's worth of system lying in the back of the workshop now defunct.

 

[multi power]

Not that simple. If you own a tractor and a livestock box, shifting your cattle/sheep to and from land you control on red is fine, shifting livestock for your neighbour is not, its hire and reward. Tractors can be used on all manner of jobs that aren't agricultural - local to me the water company have been putting in a large water main, and use tractors to move stuff around between sites. Thats not agricultural, and I assume they all would have to run on white, and maybe have tachos as well.

But in your example the tractor on the water main isn't agricultural, so I'm assuming it would need to be licensed as a goods veichle and as you say tacho etc , it's not quite as simple as just filling with white fuel

 

[multi power]

BIL fitted duel fuel systems to 3 lorrys at £10000 a pop for off road forestry and wind farm work, till vosa decided to dip the off road tank and deemed it ilegal to run on the queens highway with 2 tanks of different fuel, even though the system was fitted with a full white fuel purge to ensure no rebated fuel could be in the system whilst on public road, so 30k's worth of system lying in the back of the workshop now defunct.

Was that because you could swap from red to white without getting out of the cab ?

 

[sawdust]

Was that because you could swap from red to white without getting out of the cab ?

Yes, but they said it was illegal for 1 vehicle engine to have 2 different fuel systems.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Yes, but they said it was illegal for 1 vehicle engine to have 2 different fuel systems.

That can't be right. What about petrol/LPG cars?

 

[sawdust]

That can't be right. What about petrol/LPG cars?

Neither of then are rebated fuel.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Neither of then are rebated fuel.

Ah I misunderstood you.

 

[multi power]

Yes, but they said it was illegal for 1 vehicle engine to have 2 different fuel systems.

I know of someone using a tractor to move digger, got stopped on red fuel, they said twin fuel "might" be accatble as long as can't switch it over from the cab,
As for 2 fuel system how do fridge lorrys go ? And tippers with donkey engine, they are on red

 

[Cab-over Pete]

Dual tanks are not, nor have ever been legal. Forget all about them.

It’s really quite simple if you think about it. Just remember two things.

One, if it’s for yourself, the job being carried out must be purely agricultural. That’s hauling stuff, produce or machinery to carry out agri work. (Ie, moving a digger on a low loader to dig ditches is for agricultural benefit. Hauling the same digger to the same field to dig out footings for a new shed is construction so it should be moved on white diesel)

Two, if you are carrying out contract agri work, the tractors running on the road must be part of an in field agri operation all owned by the same company ( ie tractors and trailers hauling grass from a forager) .
If you are called in to help as an extra trailer haulier then you are not classed as part of the operation, but classed as a haulier, for hire and reward, therefore you must run on white.

Another key phrase is “agricultural land improvement”. If the operation you are carrying out is deemed as improving agricultural land then you regally can’t go wrong. Even travelling to kill grass with roundup will eventually lead to a new crop so it’s agri land improvement.

If a tractor is cutting a playing field then it isn't agricultural is it. That's why it's not simple.

Cutting playing fields is not agricultural land improvement. Topping your field next door is, but because part of the trip is to cut the playing field, white diesel should be used.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

I know of someone using a tractor to move digger, got stopped on red fuel, they said twin fuel "might" be accatble as long as can't switch it over from the cab,
As for 2 fuel system how do fridge lorrys go ? And tippers with donkey engine, they are on red

Neither of those systems will be plumbed into the engine in any way.

 

[Goweresque]

But in your example the tractor on the water main isn't agricultural, so I'm assuming it would need to be licensed as a goods veichle and as you say tacho etc , it's not quite as simple as just filling with white fuel

No, quite. There's all sorts of interlocking rules that come into play once you step outside the agricultural exemptions - white diesel, tachos, O licences etc. But thats the point - all of those things can apply to a tractor in certain circumstances, so saying 'tractors are agricultural therefore they use red' doesn't cut it. It depends what you are doing with the tractor.