What is the biggest consideration in choosing a suckler herd sire?

[Cattleman]

Had plenty of debate with friends about what bull breed to choose for a mostly spring calving suckler herd keeping own heifer replacements

What do most feel are the most important criteria regarding breed choice?

 

[Thick Farmer]

Ease of calving, temperament, growth rate, conformation.

 

[roscoe erf]

fertility

 

[Thick Farmer]

Good feet and polled.

 

[M-J-G]

To breed replacements, Temperament, size of cow you want to end up with, so that is suits your land, housing etc. Hardiness, no point keeping really lean, thin skinned cows if you're out-wintering. Milk should be a priority, cows without it aren't a mother, they're only company for the calf.

I refuse to buy a bull to breed replacements (which all our bulls are used for) without seeing his mother, make sure she has milk, is quiet, has a good calf at foot, good udder, feet and is a cow you'd love to have at home.

For terminal sires, easy calving, Temperament, Growth and will he sire replacements??????

 

[Sussex Martin]

You're looking for two bulls really aren't you? One for replacements and a terminal sire?

 

[M-J-G]

You're looking for two bulls really aren't you? One for replacements and a terminal sire?

You are correct up to a point, some Breeds can do both, be good growth beef cattle along side having milk and maternal ability.

 

[JP1]

Hybrid vigour or pure?
Native premiums - a passing fad if cattle numbers increase?

 

[tr250]

terminal charalais. maternal simxlim

 

[Cattleman]

Jury still out amongst those I talk to. One is a Charolais man, "weight always pays", another alternates blue and simmie bulls over his dairy bred sucklers for maternal qualitys

Selling strong stores, sometimes you see buyers buying on the passport sire description rather than what is in front of them in the ring

 

[tr250]

admit we calve a few cows and maybe loose an odd calf here and there but weight always pays had 1853 for a fat beast last week

 

[J-ham]

Get the basics first. Your cow needs to get in calf easily (fertility), give birth successfully (calving ease), and rear her calf well (milk). Once you've got those, look for the parts that suit your system. For most people that will be growth rates and carcass quality. A breed that can do all those things well is a rare thing indeed.

 

[M-J-G]

A good cow was never a bad colour!!!!! Weight is the most important thing at selling time. A few extra pence per Kg is useless if you don't have good numbers reared, and have good weights. For this you need good milky functional cows able to calve down easily and do a good job of her calf. To me, this is by a mile more important than the calves sire.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

A good cow was never a bad colour!!!!! Weight is the most important thing at selling time. A few extra pence per Kg is useless if you don't have good numbers reared, and have good weights. For this you need good milky functional cows able to calve down easily and do a good job of her calf. To me, this is by a mile more important than the calves sire.

Good numbers reared is more important than weight even I'd suggest. Figures such as eblex suggest most of us aren't rearing anywhere near enough calves per cow put to bull. Infertility and easy calving are key to this surely.
I'm also learning on the sheep front that its weight sold per acre that counts not necessarily per dam. If smaller, lighter cows suit your system, and you keep more per acre, you may well sell more kgs per acre than the man who keeps big cows going for big calves, possibly losing a few more along the way.

 

[Walterp]

Good numbers reared is more important than weight even I'd suggest. Figures such as eblex suggest most of us aren't rearing anywhere near enough calves per cow put to bull. Infertility and easy calving are key to this surely.
I'm also learning on the sheep front that its weight sold per acre that counts not necessarily per dam. If smaller, lighter cows suit your system, and you keep more per acre, you may well sell more kgs per acre than the man who keeps big cows going for big calves, possibly losing a few more along the way.

Blimey!

That's the first post from PBH that I've unreservedly agreed with. I'd add that a tight calving pattern is also important, but that probably comes under "fertility"...

The answer? Limousin.

 

[Thick Farmer]

It is certainly a 'numbers game'.

Better to have a small, live calf than a big, dead one!

I agree that Limos are easy calving and have a will to live, but I also have a will to live so tend to shy away from them now...

 

[M-J-G]

Blimey!

That's the first post from PBH that I've unreservedly agreed with. I'd add that a tight calving pattern is also important, but that probably comes under "fertility"...

The answer? Limousin.

Not fully in agreement there WP, They're good cattle on paper, We have tried them and cannot handle them. We only have cattle housed for a short while at calving and maybe gathered 2 or 3 times during the year and the lims in this situation were mental, a one man beast. If I took a second person with me ever they would show me up completely. Kgs at weaning weren't as good as they could have been.
We have been Sim for the last 10 years and have introduced some SH in the last few and the cattle could not be quieter and live out easily with good tough thick skins. Both traits have improved more and more the further away from Lim we have become, along with Kgs.

 

[NZDan]

For me its a bull has to leave daughters that are Fertile and Easy kept, So generally he will be smaller, fatter and not have to much milk.
I look for Milk and Size BVs that are at or below breed average. Calving ease figures that are above breed average. If theres reasonable growth as well thats a bonus.

 

[Sussex Martin]

Whatever way you look at it you are more likely to get what is required by using two bulls.

 

[J-ham]

Weight is still hugely important, but I think we'd all agree that its not all about having the heaviest calves in the mart, its kilos sold per cows put to the bull that counts.
Nothing wrong with having big cows and big calves, provided you can get the cows in calf and get the calves back out easily.
But calves with 90kg birth weights? The only people who make a profit from them are the Vet and the Knacker man!