What to do when the cows are gone

[upnortheast]

There's more to it than that. The farm is falling down, the landlords land agent agrees, it needs significant investment, probably quarter of a million and there's just no way that kind of money is going to be spent.

Slurry pit is no longer big enough due to dirty water having to go in it, silage clamp isn't safo compliant and floods like a lake. Previous tenant now wants a shed back that I thought was mine to use. Both cubicle sheds are falling down and have been condemned by red tractor - not something that can be fixed with a slap of cement one needs major repairs and the other needs knocking down. My storage/youngstock shed has had a spring pop up in the back of it and is flooded and rotted all the posts on the shed out (I've warned them about this numerous times) rendering it unusable.
Etc, I'm grateful for the opportunity but the farm isn't fit for purpose anymore.

Good to hear you sounding positive.
I go back to your post #29 describing your facilities.
To me that sounds like most of the stress you have comes from working with buildings in a poor state which are going to attract more shite everytime RT or EA come down the road.

Have you a friend or near neighbour who would take on your best cows under some ( lease ? ) arrangement. ?
Give you some breathing space to make a plan B

 

[cull cows]

Sell all young stock to raise some funds and half your work load over night.
Milk cows to put money in the tank. Soon cows will be out day and night so once you have milked in a morning you should have chance to go earn a little cash doing something else during the day.
Beef and sheep farm or livestock market looking for part time help

 

[Rich_ard]

Sell all young stock to raise some funds and half your work load over night.
Milk cows to put money in the tank. Soon cows will be out day and night so once you have milked in a morning you should have chance to go earn a little cash doing something else during the day.
Beef and sheep farm or livestock market looking for part time help

could spend some time building a new cubicle shed or whatever the place need to make things easier first.

 

[upnortheast]

could spend some time building a new cubicle shed or whatever the place need to make things easier first.

Subject to some security of tenure ?
Hasn`t he said on here a 7 year contract ?

 

[Rich_ard]

Subject to some security of tenure ?
Hasn`t he said on here a 7 year contract ?

Not sure I though he had a tenancy, I assumed that would continue if he wanted.
To add if it's all ending in x years what the point in thinking about anything but stopping.

 

[matthew]

Super cows, good grass - rented farm with crap buildings which put him under the cosh of RT and the EA. Any investment he makes in the place has to be pro rata with rent reduction. Have I got that correct?

Lovely that the young bull has passed all his tests at Cogent - but. And it's a big but, the milk you produce from pedigree, top flight cattle is paid for at the same rate as a x bred grass rat.
Registrations and classifications are the cream, but the milk in tank pays your bills.

Priorities?

 

[Headless chicken]

Keep your absolute “best” 25% cows. Put these in the facilities that are workable. Sell the remainder to raise funds. Replace with the cheapest grass rats you can find. Drill fodder beet and out winter. Don’t worry about making expensive silage just belly fill. Enjoy your 25% and manage the remainder to a profitable exit when you’re ready.

 

[Suffolk Serf]

I don’t know if it’s been suggested before but how about working as a herd manager with an arrangement that your cows run in your employers herd?
I believe that others do that.
An enlightened employer might see an advantage to having a herd manager with some degree of “ownership“.

 

[crashbox]

Any ideas

Having heard from Cogent that Newbarton ready for it RC has passed his final quarantine checks and has therefore been moved to a production pen in the main stud ready to make some straws

And the sun is shining

It's almost tragic to give up now when things are finally going the right way

Has anyone got any ideas on how to keep some of my cows (40-70 plus pedigree youngstock)

I'm not interested in swapping cows around, I'm really proud of the cows I have, and want to keep them

I've got a couple of ideas but I'm interested to know if anyone comes up with similar to me or something I haven't thought about before I post a couple of my ideas.

Relocating isn't out of scope, I'll move to the Shetland Islands if it's viable.

The only 2 real criteria is:
- to keep a third-half of my current cows and youngstock
- make it so I'm less stressed and have a life with some time off (part of that needs to be I can withdraw a sensible amount of money for myself)

Go gentle with the replies please I'm a little fragile at the moment admittedly

Stay put and get a good consultant to help you put together a business plan with a budget and work/life balance that works.

Be open minded. Cut costs, single or strict split- calving block and use grazed grass well.

You may have to sell some of your cows but not all, and buy in some robust grazing cross breds.

I can DM some names. Others may also suggest good ones.

 

[crashbox]

Stay put and get a good consultant to help you put together a business plan with a budget and work/life balance that works.

Be open minded. Cut costs, single or strict split- calving block and use grazed grass well.

You may have to sell some of your cows but not all, and buy in some robust grazing cross breds.

I can DM some names. Others may also suggest good ones.

And join a discussion club.

LIC, FCG and Anderson's all have sensible consultants used to dealing with block calving, grazing systems.

Many a farm has been brought back from the brink by focusing on milk from grazed grass.

 

[Luke Cropwalker]

I have just read through this entire thread and I must say that I take my hat off to you. It is the farm infrastructure that is not viable and nobody could make make it any different on a tenanted farm. Above all else stop thinking of this as a failure, it is merely a lesson. If you wish to retain some of your own stock then there is a place for this, somewhere, it may involve you milking cows for an other farmer at the same time but that farm would be lucky to have you. Make a start on your journey by writing down what is important to you and what you would like to achieve. When the offers start rolling in, and they will, you can compare them to your ideal. Good herdsman are very hard to find, any dairy farm would be lucky to have your skills and enthusiasm for your profession.

 

[Estate fencing.]

Tbh 20 is very young to take on a dairy farm tenancy especially if your parents aren’t dairy farmers. I’d say if they place isn’t possible to be a dairy see if you can get a rent reduction then farm some beef and sheep for the remainder on the agreement and go and relief milk for the next 7 years seeing other people systems, then if you haven’t buggered up your credit and kept the ll happy you will stand a chance of getting a good dairy or if that doesn’t come off be experienced enough to be a head manager. Most important thing isn not to burn all your bridges.

 

[Luke Cropwalker]

Any dairy farmers reading this who might have a place for @Jdunn55 and some of his stock? Don't hang about, you may well loose out.

 

[Rich_ard]

I have just read through this entire thread and I must say that I take my hat off to you. It is the farm infrastructure that is not viable and nobody could make make it any different on a tenanted farm. Above all else stop thinking of this as a failure, it is merely a lesson. If you wish to retain some of your own stock then there is a place for this, somewhere, it may involve you milking cows for an other farmer at the same time but that farm would be lucky to have you. Make a start on your journey by writing down what is important to you and what you would like to achieve. When the offers start rolling in, and they will, you can compare them to your ideal. Good herdsman are very hard to find, any dairy farm would be lucky to have your skills and enthusiasm for your profession.

Any dairy farmers reading this who might have a place for @Jdunn55 and some of his stock? Don't hang about, you may well loose out.

From what I am reading most the dairy farmers are saying get rid of the fancy cows and buy cheaper ones. Who actually wants his cows?

 

[Sheepykid]

I’ll admit I have little understanding of running a profitable dairy. But unfortunately I have a reasonable idea of farming through a period of hardship. Reading between the lines you think if you were to sell up now you’d be £50k short of squaring everything up. Assuming you started with some capital that’s now gone as well. It’s really a case of cutting your cloth to fit. You also farmed through a period of 50p a litre.
Seeing as that your on a tenanted farm I’d hazard a guess the bank aren’t too keen on this situation either. I understand the landlord has been slack in keeping things all up and together. But as long as the frames are strong enough a bit of cladding and the odd gate to hang can’t be that big a job surely. As the gates and fixtures you can take with you anyway. Which actually all owner occupiers would have the same costs to bare as you if their buildings were sub standard. If the scenario is you are trying to milk 200 cows on a farm with facilities for 100 that’s more of a you problem than your landlord anyway. My gut feeling is you need to change your plan drastically, cut your cloth to fit. I have a family relation that has bred pedigree cows for years. Although he has many awards and rosettes for his efforts in showing and breeding its not lined his pockets with much silver. I have no doubt you’re a very capable farmer but the path you’ve chosen isn’t the right one. For now at least. I wouldn’t get too down about it. Give it 5 years you could be in a completely different place.
I genuinely wish you the best of luck and don’t beat yourself up. If everything went to plan life would be pretty boring!

 

[betweenthelines]

All the issues with the farm buildings should result in a rent reduction. Then pay a visit to @Cows 'n grass to see how to keep dairy cows with FA infrastructure.

 

[DRC]

People seem to be forgetting the big Elephant in the room, which is red tractor ( which you need to sell milk) aren’t happy with the buildings and infrastructure . Add in the EA ( so obviously the slurry/ manure situation isn’t right either). And his nearest and dearest are also telling him to pack it in before it gets any more serious .
So it sounds like the farm isn’t fit for milk production and personally at 23 I’d cut your losses and get a job as a herdsman somewhere with accommodation . Work for a few years and save some capital to try again if a better farm comes up somewhere .

 

[dinderleat]

All the issues with the farm buildings should result in a rent reduction. Then pay a visit to @Cows 'n grass to see how to keep dairy cows with FA infrastructure.

@Cows 'n grass He’s got a fair palace now

 

[Scholsey]

@Jdunn55 you may have already answered this but anyway you could move back home and milk a few and keep your well bred stuff going until you get something sorted, only got to look at the likes of gwillam Richard’s sales to see there will be a lot of empty dairy units soon, a lot of which would be well invested.

 

[ImLost]

Hesitant to post this, but here goes.......

1) Anyway, everyone around me is pushing for me to sell the cows, and I'm too tired to fight anymore. I don't want to sell my cows but I've can't carry on as I am and I can't see anything changing

Everyone keeps promising there's some sort of amazing light at the end of the tunnel once they're sold, and they keep saying I can do whatever I want afterwards

2) But what do I want? I can't work it out, I've never thought about doing anything except having my own herd, I've never wanted anything else in fact.
So what do I do when they're gone?

3) I have no money to my name and don't have any a-levels just 9 gcse's including English and maths plus A*'s in chemistry biology and geography
But that's all sort of irrelevant if I don't know what I want

4) I'm pretty sure that once they're gone I don't want to do anything farming related

5) Any ideas?

1) Why is everyone else pushing for it? Because they see how much of a toll it's taking on you? Or how much of a toll it's taking on them??

2) You answered your own question of what you want in the point above and in this point. You want your own herd.

3) In your previous posts on here, I have noticed you have a fairly good handle on your numbers. Put aside the capital investment needed for now, are you profitable as a business? Are you keeping on top of your debt?? Oh, and join the club on naff all grades

4) What is your reason for this? Is it a feeling of moving your cows on when they are more like your family, and then you feel you can't look another animal in the face??

5) Loads of ideas, I'm usually a man of ideas, but would need to unpack your situation a bit more first, or ideas are irrelevant at this stage (most would likely be ideas on how to keep you in the game btw)

6) Red tractor is just sort of the final straw, there's more to it than them

7) I don't know if I want to go back to studying, I hated school and hated ag college even more. The only thing that got me through them was the thought that I'd be me milking my own cows at some point.

6) Is the RT issue the primary issue here, and the family one secondary as a result?

7) Don't blame you. Knowing what you really don't want is sometimes more important as knowing what you do want

8) Truly no idea what I like. I hate driving though. I fall asleep after an hour or two so hgv/contracting probably isn't for me.

8) As with point 7

9) How? I have no money

9) As with point 3, how long, on your current trajectory, until you are debt free? Are you paying yourself a wage from the farm?? Whether it's money to travel or for anything else, I know what it's like being in a financial hole personally, and no one wants to be there. Is it more a case of your money is tied up in livestock at the moment?

10) I can't see anyone wanting me tbh. I hardly have a set of credentials that set me out as a half decent herdsman

11) All I'd have on my cv is that I milked my own cows for 3 years and was forced to sell them because I failed. I wouldn't hire me. All I could think is what if I failed their cows as well as mine.

10) Why? Sounds like it's purely self doubt. You have a lot more credentials than quite a few farmers twice your age or older have, that I know.

11) Putting emotion aside here, why wouldn't you hire yourself? What are the top 2 or 3 reasons?? These might be good self improvement points. Everyone can improve at something and benefits from doing this exercise

12) Officially 7 yesrs but 2 years before the break clause. My landlord died recently though and my other landlord (his wife) I don't think is very well. They've been lovely and I'm really grateful to them for giving me the opportunity.

12) What are the definitives with your tenancy? Do you know if it is actually going to end?? If yes, when. If no, could you start negotiating now, before the break clause to work something that gives you something more solid to work with? I have loads of ideas on this, but it largely depends on answering the first couple of questions and how open the landlord is to these kind of conversations.

My points above likely come across as direct. I don't mean to be insensitive, but if you are desperate to change the situation as quick as you can, you don't have time for BS'ing yourself.
I also don't intend for you to answer all of these questions openly on a public forum, or even at all. They are more things to think about or answer yourself.

One thing which a lot of people keep raising on here is the idea of selling some of your better cows, and bringing in cheaper grazers, to bring in more £ in the short/medium term. Don't close your mind to this. What's better, selling the bottom 1/3 - 1/2 of your herd and making some more ££ so you can improve your herd and keep going in the long run, or selling the herd entirely? I say this as an aside, as it doesn't fix the issues you are having, but if finance is what you need to keep farming, it might be a way to accomplish this.

To me it looks like this

Issue #1 facilities are inadequate so issue #2 RT aren't happy which means issue #3 you believe it will take a lot of investment to keep selling milk which means #4 you are worried sick and working yourself to the bone which in turn means #5 your family want you out of it before something happens to you/your health which leads to issue #6 you don't know what you would do with yourself if you did pack it all in. Or am I wrong?

I would be 100% focusing on issue #1, the root cause, if this is the case. If you can fix #1 cost effectively, it will keep RT happy, which will mean you can stay in business, keeping you and hopefully family happy. Drill deeper too. Which of your facilities needs the most attention? Write a list, in order of priority e.g. slurry lagoon, silage clamp, calf shed, cubicle housing. Don't get depressed by this list, there are a number of things you could do with it including using it as a negotiating point with landlords, a list of objectives of things to DIY and fix for the short/medium term where possible or come up with complete alternatives that are far more cost effective etc.
You say it would cost around £250k to make all of the repairs. Write an approximate cost next to each thing that needs fixing, or even better, get actual quotes you can work on. £250k isn't insignificant, but broken down you might start to see where some improvements could be made, or what you can achieve,

Going to leave it there now, feels like I'm rambling and I've started to make assumptions (which can be dangerous!) Not expecting you to respond to my DM either, but as others have offered on here, I'm happy to talk things over anytime.