What's a fair wage on a family farm?

[flyonthewall]

My brother and I (both directors of our livestock farm, but not ownerd by us) in our 30s work on our family farm usually 50+ hours, probably take a week to 10 days holiday a year (I know this is not unusual in this industry). Our housing is provided by the farm, but can hardly be classed as elaborate, we pay ourselves £8k/year (and have been for the last 10 years). I've been looking at our accounts and in theory we could probably afford to increase this to £16k ea, but this would probably be at the expense of investment needed (new barn, replace worn out machinery etc etc) as our profits would only be £10-15k based on last years costs/sales.

I'm very much minded towards a pay rise as I'm finding my pay whilst adequate a decade ago is not enough to afford the basics and have money for savings, but the rest of the family are reluctant. I have suggested we look for ways to improve profitability, but am met with deaf ears at best and positive hostility towards some diversification plans. Is it reasonable to expect more (as a uni grad) from this industry?

 

[Kidds]

Is it reasonable to expect more from this industry?

Yes it is reasonable to expect it but it is unlikely to happen.
I am 20 years older than you but have done exactly the same (Ag college Diploma) and the money never gets better and the reluctance and hostility remains the same.

 

[franklin]

If some of your "wage" is actually being turned into investment, then thats same thing isnt it?

So you are getting say £8k investments, £8k cash, and accomodation?

It sounds like you can draw more now, or invest for the future - thats pretty much the choice we all have one way or another!

 

[Frank_farmer]

You say housing is provided, in the real world that's worth minimum £550 per month rent, £120 rates, £100 utilities/insurance etc.... So there's another £10k

How about vehicle? fuel?

You are investing, but you don't own it? Is it Dad owned and will be yours eventually?

 

[fudge]

Well a guess it is up to you! Why not pay yourself the personal allowance? That plus a place to live takes you to 15kish? The bonus is you can still call yourself chronically low paid, but then you have chosen agriculture.

 

[phil t]

8k and a house on a Tennant Farm?to me seems ridiculous but it seams the norm in the industry.i left the family farm 5 years ago was pulling 18k out but no house I now work for someone doing groundwork which I enjoy and take home a good wage.having a wife and family now I couldn't go back to the farming wage

 

[rose pilchett]

Very difficult situation, I left a family set up when 34, lots of hostility bullying from one of my parents , there was just 3 of us in partnership, I living with parents, paid 50 a week, they both were knocking on door of 70 at time, profits were typically 120k to 145k a year , 95% land owned and zero borrowings, there were no employees, I reckoned I was doing 65% of work, like you a graduate, once it became clear things unlikely to get any better I left them to it, I now am back in industry I worked in when originally finished university, earning a tidy salary, have kids and got saving for a pension again. Deeply miss being a farmer, however in reality was slave, hopeful I may one day get a chance, although have a very strong inkling i am about to be offered a 'pay out' within the next couple of months, WTF! Think it will be circa 30 to 40k which I can now easily earn in a year so I will be taking not a penny of it from the [email protected] sorry for the rant

are things likely to improve once older hostile family members have passed away?if so can you wait that long?ate you saving for pension?

I feel very sorry for you, you've looked for ways to diversify and improve earnings but I fear you're in a typical 'it's aye been' situation

Good luck

 

[DrWazzock]

My brother and I (both directors of our livestock farm, but not ownerd by us) in our 30s work on our family farm usually 50+ hours, probably take a week to 10 days holiday a year (I know this is not unusual in this industry). Our housing is provided by the farm, but can hardly be classed as elaborate, we pay ourselves £8k/year (and have been for the last 10 years). I've been looking at our accounts and in theory we could probably afford to increase this to £16k ea, but this would probably be at the expense of investment needed (new barn, replace worn out machinery etc etc) as our profits would only be £10-15k based on last years costs/sales.

I'm very much minded towards a pay rise as I'm finding my pay whilst adequate a decade ago is not enough to afford the basics and have money for savings, but the rest of the family are reluctant. I have suggested we look for ways to improve profitability, but am met with deaf ears at best and positive hostility towards some diversification plans. Is it reasonable to expect more (as a uni grad) from this industry?

Sounds very familiar. We draw the minimum needed to pay very modest living expenses very similar amount to yourselves. Reinvested what's left of the profit into new sheds etc.

Depends on your priorities. As we get older we feel the need to reinvest less and maybe draw a bit more and reinvest it off farm to spread the risk.

 

[vinnie123]

What do you have to pay for out of your wages?
Could you not have a smaller pay rise and then a set annual increase based on profit or some kind of end of year bonus, again linked to profit?

 

[nick...]

Probably a huge percentage of posters who could put similar stories on here
Nick...

 

[gone up the hill]

Your on 10K for the house so currently taking out 18k each, that is a reasonable/ very good wage on a family farm in these times. (esp if the farm pays for a truck )

 

[gone up the hill]

Very difficult situation, I left a family set up when 34, lots of hostility bullying from one of my parents , there was just 3 of us in partnership, I living with parents, paid 50 a week, they both were knocking on door of 70 at time, profits were typically 120k to 145k a year , 95% land owned and zero borrowings, there were no employees, I reckoned I was doing 65% of work, like you a graduate, once it became clear things unlikely to get any better I left them to it, I now am back in industry I worked in when originally finished university, earning a tidy salary, have kids and got saving for a pension again. Deeply miss being a farmer, however in reality was slave, hopeful I may one day get a chance, although have a very strong inkling i am about to be offered a 'pay out' within the next couple of months, WTF! Think it will be circa 30 to 40k which I can now easily earn in a year so I will be taking not a penny of it from the [email protected] sorry for the rant

are things likely to improve once older hostile family members have passed away?if so can you wait that long?ate you saving for pension?

I feel very sorry for you, you've looked for ways to diversify and improve earnings but I fear you're in a typical 'it's aye been' situation

Good luck

What type of farming were you doing to make 130K+ a profit a year?

 

[DrWazzock]

Just console yourself with the thought that farming is the best career in the world.

 

[DRC]

Just console yourself with the thought that farming is the best career in the world.

Can't help but think of Jeremy Clarkson.

 

[Farmer_Joe]

You say housing is provided, in the real world that's worth minimum £550 per month rent, £120 rates, £100 utilities/insurance etc.... So there's another £10k

How about vehicle? fuel?

You are investing, but you don't own it? Is it Dad owned and will be yours eventually?

If this is true then it ok but still not really enough, if you dont get this then you need to move on.

I was never really encouraged to work on the farm full time in my youth so got a degree and did other things eventually as i live on the farm (not the farm house and i bought it) i ended up getting roped into working on the farm and my job the point came where i said i either forget it and concentrate on my other job or leave and become a partner on the farm, not being a fool knowing my dad was doing less and less i had to have the majority of the partnership or it was simply not viable he was realistic too and ready to step back.

we take our restrospective shares then when we can gauge whats left we decide if we invest or take a bigger share.

If its sh!t you need to leave and only return if it all stacks up

As a note a livestock farmer around here works for his parents and is on double what you get 8k is abismal it really should be 16 at least or go and work for a farmer get more and do less hours

 

[rose pilchett]

What type of farming were you doing to make 130K+ a profit a year?

500 acres mainly wheat, beans bit of Spring barley, bit of beef cattle rented out 4 old workers cottages , I am handy with spanners so fairly well maintained older kit used , not a single pound borrowed by the time I left, when there are no employees and only a hedge cutting contractor that was very doable I am sure I could have upped that figure if they had left me to it

 

[Chae1]

How do you like on £700 per month? Run a car, pay council tax, house bills. Eat, have a social life.

 

[Doing it for the kids]

It's really hard, similar boat here. It's been agreed that I take a basic salary but have a profit share. 'Only worth what you make'

If your dad won't gift any of the assets then it's always horrid As you never know for sure if your 'subsidised' salary will every be for greater good.

Sitting down with tea is what we try and do, explain you want to earn more and try the ideas again.

You could agree the pay rise but not necessarily draw all the cash out, let the tax tail wag your earnings then re invest it as a personal loan. This way at least you get money out of his estate into yours and no one really notices on the ground.

I think farming succession must be one of the hardest thing to tackle in any farming family

 

[holywell farmer]

My brother and I (both directors of our livestock farm, but not ownerd by us) in our 30s work on our family farm usually 50+ hours, probably take a week to 10 days holiday a year (I know this is not unusual in this industry). Our housing is provided by the farm, but can hardly be classed as elaborate, we pay ourselves £8k/year (and have been for the last 10 years). I've been looking at our accounts and in theory we could probably afford to increase this to £16k ea, but this would probably be at the expense of investment needed (new barn, replace worn out machinery etc etc) as our profits would only be £10-15k based on last years costs/sales.

I'm very much minded towards a pay rise as I'm finding my pay whilst adequate a decade ago is not enough to afford the basics and have money for savings, but the rest of the family are reluctant. I have suggested we look for ways to improve profitability, but am met with deaf ears at best and positive hostility towards some diversification plans. Is it reasonable to expect more (as a uni grad) from this industry?

8 pound an hour,,,,

 

[Robw54]

My brother and I (both directors of our livestock farm, but not ownerd by us) in our 30s work on our family farm usually 50+ hours, probably take a week to 10 days holiday a year (I know this is not unusual in this industry). Our housing is provided by the farm, but can hardly be classed as elaborate, we pay ourselves £8k/year (and have been for the last 10 years). I've been looking at our accounts and in theory we could probably afford to increase this to £16k ea, but this would probably be at the expense of investment needed (new barn, replace worn out machinery etc etc) as our profits would only be £10-15k based on last years costs/sales.

I'm very much minded towards a pay rise as I'm finding my pay whilst adequate a decade ago is not enough to afford the basics and have money for savings, but the rest of the family are reluctant. I have suggested we look for ways to improve profitability, but am met with deaf ears at best and positive hostility towards some diversification plans. Is it reasonable to expect more (as a uni grad) from this industry?

You're on £3 an hour ex house...