What's stopping you from becoming regenerative/holistic?

[james.l]

Hi, I've recently come across the concept of RegenAg/Holistic management and wondered why it's not more mainstream despite it's obvious benefits.
What are some of the barriers that are preventing/prevented you from making the switch?
What can be done to overcome them?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Hi, I've recently come across the concept of RegenAg/Holistic management and wondered why it's not more mainstream despite it's obvious benefits.
What are some of the barriers that are preventing/prevented you from making the switch?
What can be done to overcome them?

The biggest barrier by far is making the mental leap. For most folk it appears to take a major crisis to open the mind first.

 

[JohnGalway]

Change is confrontation, it implies someone is doing something wrong, unless a person approaches me or shows interest first I generally try not to change their mind on what they're already doing. Going spraying? Good man. Going topping? Good man.

Funny enough I got talking to the local cop last evening and he showed interest in what I'm doing (badly).

The two biggest objections I've met are "That's fine for good land but it won't work here", and "I don't have time to move stock every day".

You know what Henry Ford said "If you think you can or can not, you're right".

 

[Whitewalker]

Hi, I've recently come across the concept of RegenAg/Holistic management and wondered why it's not more mainstream despite it's obvious benefits.
What are some of the barriers that are preventing/prevented you from making the switch?
What can be done to overcome them?

what’s stopping you ?

 

[spin cycle]

can;t grow my hair long enough and don't like sandals ?

 

[Rod Dumbreck]

We are making an effort to go regen and are finding it a bigger change of attitude than we though.

An example, we have plenty of electric fence, and a winder to put it out and take it up. We used to use it on away grazing and put out 3000m or so at one time, which was a chore, and we still think of it that way. The reality is, its a few minutes to do our next three paddocks at home.

Then the aspect of sward measuring, all the guys we have talked to are so precise, and their spreadsheets immaculate, the reality is , we are just getting our eyes attuned to 3000kg/Ha DM, having never looked at grass this way before. It sets you up for uncertainty if you don't know 2000/3000/4000, if you lashed out all the money and bought the plate meter you may feel better, but it doesn't count if its sitting on buttercups (or does it) (= more uncertainty)

So there is more certainty in soldiering on the same way that you always have, perhaps it requires the spirit of adventure to have a go at doing it differently.

 

[Whitewalker]

I think for us it needs to be more organised regarding our water and fences to make it easier then I think it won’t be so bad . They say try a minimum of 3 years to see change and I do think it’s hard to re programme however it’s all about doing little steps to get started and go from there .

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Society is so degenerative.

Everything is based around rules, regulations, specifications, prescribed methods and recipes

It takes a fair bit of determination to break out of that mould when you aren't automatically rewarded for doing better

 

[Bury the Trash]

It would be good not to feel like one has to buy fert and chems... or is that different?
Regen is for non cropping is it not?

It's much easier to be organic without crops other than brassicas that's for sure.

Livestock are a big responsibility tho.

 

[Dead Rabbits]

Oil is still really cheap. Ridiculously cheap of you think about it.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

It would be good not to feel like one has to buy fert and chems... or is that different?
Regen is for non cropping is it not?

It's much easier to be organic without crops other than brassicas that's for sure.

Livestock are a big responsibility tho.

Plenty of regenerative practitioners grow arable crops, fruit or fibre. It can be done if you want to.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

It would be good not to feel like one has to buy fert and chems... or is that different?
Regen is for non cropping is it not?

It's much easier to be organic without crops other than brassicas that's for sure.

Livestock are a big responsibility tho.

I would say, read Gabe Brown's book

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dirt-Soil-Familys-Regenerative-Agriculture/dp/1603587632

He had both animals and broad acre cropping in the USA, most of the book is talking about the arable side

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Your title suggests some confusion by the way. Regenerative and holistic are not interchangeable.

You can farm regeneratively but not manage truly holistically and visa versa.

Holistic Management is seeing and effectively managing the whole picture. It requires you to look deep within yourself and clearly determine what your motivations are and what you seek to achieve economically, ecologically and socially. You then manage to achieve balance and enhancement of all of these.

 

[Farmer Roy]

It would be good not to feel like one has to buy fert and chems... or is that different?
Regen is for non cropping is it not?

It's much easier to be organic without crops other than brassicas that's for sure.

Livestock are a big responsibility tho.

err
I am 100% arable ( although I would like to integrate trade cattle when I can afford to buy some - they crazy money at the moment over here ) & would like to think I am heading down the regenerative path
Long way to go yet, but I think the point is you are always moving & improving & adapting & learning anyway . . .

Certainly, all my thinking is from a regen point of view & all decisions are based on what’s best for the soil, the biology, the environment, my soul . . .

 

[som farmer]

from all types of farming, ultra intensive, to ultra extensive, there are things from all those, that could be well worth doing, on our own farms. We have x2 organic neighbours, and while not convinced on organic, in my mind, they seem to swop chemicals for diesel, there are many things they do, that could improve our farms, rotation, and building soil fertility, and the proper use of shite, for instance. Looking at shite, which we all know, is great for soil condition, to actually produce enough to satisfy the need, millions of extra stock, would have to be kept, which wouldn't help either prices, or environmental worries. Just like other systems, there are 'bits' that can easily improve our farms, and I think, that as you keep using the 'bits', you start along the road, of making our individual farms, both healthier and more sustainable. The important bit, is recognizing you can cheaply start to alter practices, after that, things just evolve as you go along.
I am not sure any system is 'right', although to listen to some fanatical converts , if we don't change NOW the world will die, people, its a path, to how we, can make, our farms, long-term sustainable.

 

[Rainmaker]

First hand observations after dabbling in
Regen Ag for a couple of years.

The natural products are just as costly as the conventional.

It's a bit of punt knowing when the CC or FYM to a lesser degree will release it's fertility with spring cropping. The price of hen muck and the compaction of the spreaders still make a bag of Yara cost effective.

Cover crop options are severely limited if you grow certified seed. Obviously easier if you don't or have a narrow rotation.

CC's need moisture ...........bloody hard to justify the irrigation and seed cost here with a drought this year.

With all the herbage seed regrowth and green feed oats for livestock grown here that's surely as good as a cover crop for most Canterbury arable farms. CC's are possibly more suited to the corn belt of the US etc etc.

You don't have to morph into Gabe Brown over night to make positive changes to the overall health of your soil. Everyone moves at there own pace.

Going forward I intend to keep doing simple things like liquid fish offal on stubble instead of the kiwi hobby of burning and doing the usual things like delayed drilling with a biological seed treatment to save on insecticide etc and being mind full of the effects my actions are having on the environment. Might add other more Re Gen practices as they become more proven and my understanding grows.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Your title suggests some confusion by the way. Regenerative and holistic are not interchangeable.

You can farm regeneratively but not manage truly holistically and visa versa.

Holistic Management is seeing and effectively managing the whole picture. It requires you to look deep within yourself and clearly determine what your motivations are and what you seek to achieve economically, ecologically and socially. You then manage to achieve balance and enhancement of all of these.

You can be/do either without spending money, too.

There seems to be a strand of the regenerative ag movement struggling with the grieving process to the extent they're just replacing one type of expenditure with another - this type of fert with that type... this crop with that crop mix.... because their "whole" operation hasn't really shifted.

It's maybe worth noting here that you can be quite regeneratively-minded yet still be trapped in the commodity-production game, which doesn't really provide any extra freedom or make miracles happen

 

[james.l]

Thanks all. Great insights and conversation. Seems like the main issue is the required mindset shift and suddenly doing something different to what you're used to. How can that be made easier?

For context, I'm not actually a farmer. I would classify myself as a conscious consumer who has recently been made aware of the impact my food shop at Sainsbury's has on the environment and the benefits of improved management. I'm wondering how to change this and get more regenerative management on farms

 

[som farmer]

Thanks all. Great insights and conversation. Seems like the main issue is the required mindset shift and suddenly doing something different to what you're used to. How can that be made easier?

For context, I'm not actually a farmer. I would classify myself as a conscious consumer who has recently been made aware of the impact my food shop at Sainsbury's has on the environment and the benefits of improved management. I'm wondering how to change this and get more regenerative management on farms

for a start, ask sainsbury's about their aggressive buying policies, especially with regard to the recently failed milk processor, thomlinsons, there's plenty of info, not nice reading either, on their buying policies.

 

[james.l]

for a start, ask sainsbury's about their aggressive buying policies, especially with regard to the recently failed milk processor, thomlinsons, there's plenty of info, not nice reading either, on their buying policies.

agreed. there needs to be a system that by-passes the supermarkets in my mind. In today's day and age, they feel redudant. Why can't I just order direct from you or Thomlinsons? The infrastructure to do so is available - just needs a website and delivery system set up for individuals vs supermarkets. No new innovation needed. Yes easier said than done but a man in a van is available and doesn't require a great technological leap forward

Though maybe I'm missing something... ?