Where does a predominantly grassland farm fit in with carbon credits

[Ffermer Bach]

Heres a novel thought. How bout they stick their carbon credits (and paying for them) where their emissions come ( up their own asses)from and clean up their own stinking mess, rather than being able to "offset" it and pollute away happily.
Obviously farming is a neutral exercise when it comes to carbon , or more importantly a "negative" one.
End goal is achieved much quicker if big business is forced to clean up their act. If that means no air travel then good, so be it.

I have shared this before, but it shows us how silly carbon offsetting is, which selling carbon credits is a part of.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=548608911448

 

[Ffermer Bach]

But, again, it's an unfair comparison unless you restrict yourself to grassland on class 2 or 1 land. What's the carbon footprint of growing wheat on hill ground? Or on wet river meadows? That's where most UK grassland is, after all.

Also, shouldn't the QUALITY of the food come into it? Compare per kg of bioavailable protein and pasture raised meat would knock the socks off plant based foods. Excessive consumption of processed cereals and maize underpins much of our current health crisis.

None of this is obvious or easy.

Nutrient density of food is the one thing the that food manufacturers don't want to talk about, they even put big signs on the ultra processed food to say "we have added extra vitamin......", which should actually say, "our food is so lacking in goodness, we have to artificially add chemicals back in to try to address this"! This is one thing the pasture raised or plant based from living soils food has that processed food doesn't, so food processors have persuaded us that this doesn't matter and we should concentrate on something else, like carbon offsetting or methane emissions from cattle.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

I didnt mean to take extremes I know the first is what we do and the second is what I see go through the ring when I am occasionally there , but the good results quoted on grass whilst certainly possible on good grass /management/top quality silage etc I certainly dont see it on the elms/hls type scheme policys that appear to be the future (but I may have interpreted that wrongly ).
Growth rate and avoiding a second winter/feeding period in the key to both though , at the moment the more forage used the older the finished cattle are .
To take another extreme would running highland bullocks to 36 months on lots of acres of poor forage with some winter feeding be more carbon friendly to produce the the same amount of meat ?

I wonder what the effect (on health) of eating the meat from the inefficient grazing on HLS type ground is? Is it healthier than the faster grown animals? Or the same, questions like this should be asked, as we all as a society pay towards the NHS. Very difficult questions to answer I recon.

 

[cows sh#t me to tears]

I think it is rather over optimistic to suggest even farming is carbon neutral! Most of us farm land that once held much more carbon in forest, scrub or perm pasture than is the case today. We all have our own direct fossil fuel contributions. Total soil organic matter on most farms has decreased in the past 40 years, faster still when farming high organic soils like the fens. Its disingenuous to say that the emissions from manufactures of our inputs have nothing to do with us. Even those few who really are carbon sinks, we need to offset the emissions from those upstream of our supply chain before we can offset emissions from any other. On average its 6kg of CO2 emitted for every 1kg Nitrogen produced, its about 2T C02 emissions for every 1T of steel and more still to turn that steel into agricultural equipment and parts

So . How and why can farmers expect more free money in exchange for a "credit"? Makes little sense to me.

 

[farmerm]

So . How and why can farmers expect more free money in exchange for a "credit"? Makes little sense to me.

In the same way as the weavers in the tale of The Emperors New Clothes.... If we really have surplus carbon sequestration and storage we can sell as a service then fantastic, but anyone selling carbon offset certificates without having first offset their own carbon footprint, and without long term commitment to hold that sequestered carbon, is in my opinion nothing more than a fraudster selling something that is not theirs to sell.

 

[roscoe erf]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=324037939272064

 

[Lazy Sod]

Not convinced any form of farming is ever going to be truly sustainable, but 'extensive' ranching type operations where cattle or other are grazed over a long term native grassland type environment with minimal inputs (including a lot of water use mind) I would consider as replicating natural habitats around the world where big areas of land manage to support often quite large herds of animals. I suppose putting sewage sludge back on the land would complete the cycle and you would have a pretty closed system.

Why would there be a lot of water use? Most of the water a grazing animal uses is returned to the soil, less so if it is a dairy cow.

 

[ollie989898]

Why would there be a lot of water use? Most of the water a grazing animal uses is returned to the soil, less so if it is a dairy cow.

Ok, go and research how much water is needed to produce 1lb of corn, 1lb of sugar, 1lb of cheese and 1lb of steak.

 

[Tarw Coch]

Ok, go and research how much water is needed to produce 1lb of corn, 1lb of sugar, 1lb of cheese and 1lb of steak.

Quite a lot, most of it, at farm level at least, falls from the sky regardless of wether it’s produced or not.

 

[Highland Mule]

Ok, go and research how much water is needed to produce 1lb of corn, 1lb of sugar, 1lb of cheese and 1lb of steak.

My cattle “used” an average of 400 cubic yards of water each this week, to maybe add a few kilos of weight. Not really, but that’s what the antis would argue. Works out at 3” rain and one beast per acre, which is coincidentally was the stocking rate in their field.

I’d have preferred them to “use” much less than that, truthfully, but I have no control over what I get.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

I think the water use that does need examining, is almond milk, as most almonds come from central valley in California and are irrigated with I believe aquifer water, that is being depleted while the West of the USA is already chronically short of water, milk produced in the West of the UK, water use is definitely not a problem.

 

[DaveGrohl]

The water use thing makes me chuckle every time. If they can't work out what a load of old bollox they're being told on that one then there truly is no hope for mankind.

 

[Still Farming]

https://www.facebook.com/100051971389604/posts/416783100064066

 

[Kevtherev]

Enough trees in wales I think

 

[wanton dwarf]

Question??

I have a new pup who is very annoying when I'm trying to read. So unfortunately I didn't get the full gist of the articles in Farmers Weekly.

I think there's something about a calculator of CO2 - a website was mentioned.

So a good start would be to calc based on what they are saying and jump over hurdles on paper as required to get where you need to be. That might also include how you reseed etc.

There was a mention of letting hedgerows get larger trees - which we did about 30 years ago.

Most grass farms have some woods and good hedges ? I would say there's some Carbon Credits there one way or another.


I was also wondering today how "Renewables" fits in - if you are generating power then surely that amounts to Carbon Credits ? Sure there are other ways of looking at things - such as using by products sold to Cows from Oilseed Rape/Soya/Brewers Grains which would otherwise rot into CO2.

Play the game - but I suggest everyone pools ideas as a whole.

 

[DaveGrohl]

https://www.facebook.com/100051971389604/posts/416783100064066

You know what would sort all that and generate a huge amount of publicity which would bring the media in to listen to the locals to lay bare the whole tree planting nonsense? A few passionate locals with chainsaws going out every weekend. Sad to say but we're at that stage now.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

You know what would sort all that and generate a huge amount of publicity which would bring the media in to listen to the locals to lay bare the whole tree planting nonsense? A few passionate locals with chainsaws going out every weekend. Sad to say but we're at that stage now.

Merched Beca

 

[Y Fan Wen]

https://www.facebook.com/100051971389604/posts/416783100064066

Two comments. I don't believe FC ever had any compulsory purchase powers. Dad bought one hill farm in 50s and one in the 60s. In both cases he was competing against FC and won 'cos he bid faster and completed promptly. FC had to get each purchase approved by the Treasury which took its time as always.
Don't think we'll see any larch being planted in this country again as PR makes its way across the uk.