Where does a predominantly grassland farm fit in with carbon credits

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
I suspect it would depend on how that grassland is managed. If it runs cattle indoors on zero grazed, high input Westerwolds then it will have a far higher carbon footprint than the same farm with reasonable output from a rotational grazing system, outwintering on cell grazed grass or forage crops, and with no bought in concentrates.

Every farming system will be different.

Should the farmer, and his family’s, lifestyle be taken into account of too? If they’re miserable buggers that never go anywhere and live on homegrown veg & meat, then their carbon footprint will be many times lower than a family that flies off on skiing holidays and races cars for a hobby….just as a random example.😂 I guess somewhere in the middle, will be a miserable bugger that doesn’t fly off on holiday, but keeps a fleet of Smokey old Fordsons to ride round in? @7610 super q @Clive
 

7610 super q

Member
Arable Farmer
I suspect it would depend on how that grassland is managed. If it runs cattle indoors on zero grazed, high input Westerwolds then it will have a far higher carbon footprint than the same farm with reasonable output from a rotational grazing system, outwintering on cell grazed grass or forage crops, and with no bought in concentrates.

Every farming system will be different.

Should the farmer, and his family’s, lifestyle be taken into account of too? If they’re miserable buggers that never go anywhere and live on homegrown veg & meat, then their carbon footprint will be many times lower than a family that flies off on skiing holidays and races cars for a hobby….just as a random example.😂 I guess somewhere in the middle, will be a miserable bugger that doesn’t fly off on holiday, but keeps a fleet of Smokey old Fordsons to ride round in? @7610 super q @Clive
That's me, miserable bugger, likes ploughing up PP with smokey old Fords.:cool:
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
That's me, miserable bugger, likes ploughing up PP with smokey old Fords.:cool:

It would interesting (although not really :rolleyes: ) to see the carbon calculation for a ploughed & cultivated wheat crop yielding 4t/ac, versus a poorly direct drilled wheat crop that has been half eaten by slugs, leatherjackets and wireworm, yielding 2t/ac. :scratchhead:

I’ve no doubt DD can tick the carbon boxes when it’s implemented well, but I’m not so sure on those occasions where output is compromised.
 

7610 super q

Member
Arable Farmer
To my mind cattle grazing PP is the most environmentally friendly thing going, yet it's vilified by endless propaganda about cows farting. A really neat PR job from big business to deflect publicity away from their own actions. Whilst this is ongoing, I have to view the whole carbon credit thing as rubbish. Should farmers engage with the rubbish to take meagre short term handouts like mice looking for crumbs under the table ? I don't think so.
Carbon credits....🖕
Tree planting.......🖕
ELMS.......................🖕

Didn't type " rubbish "
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
To my mind cattle grazing PP is the most environmentally friendly thing going, yet it's vilified by endless propaganda about cows farting. A really neat PR job from big business to deflect publicity away from their own actions. Whilst this is ongoing, I have to view the whole carbon credit thing as rubbish. Should farmers engage with the rubbish to take meagre short term handouts like mice looking for crumbs under the table ? I don't think so.
Carbon credits....🖕
Tree planting.......🖕
ELMS.......................🖕

Didn't type " rubbish "

Cattle that only graze pp only will be quite efficient in terms of carbon I would have thought, but plenty are then housed on ad-Lib (or near) concentrates to finish, which is ultimately no different to the feed lot systems in the US, just on a smaller, less efficient scale.
 
Location
Devon
A farm that uses it's pastures to produce food with little/ no bought in inputs will probably be more sustainable and environmentally beneficial that almost any other activity on the planet.
As such, it should be at the top of the list of things worthy of support.
Carbon credits do not benefit the environment and are the antithesis of sustainability. This is probably why they never get mentioned together.
 
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Kevtherev

Member
Location
Welshpool Powys
Of course not.... you needed to have ripped all the hedges out years ago, get paid a fortune to put them back, depleted all the OM from the soil and sell carbon credits to build it up again.

Im of the opinion that grassland farms are going to get left behind.
Already the case looking at the other carbon thread it’s not a fair assessment across Uk agriculture it seems to lean towards arable.
Unless it’s just me reading it wrong?
 
Not convinced any form of farming is ever going to be truly sustainable, but 'extensive' ranching type operations where cattle or other are grazed over a long term native grassland type environment with minimal inputs (including a lot of water use mind) I would consider as replicating natural habitats around the world where big areas of land manage to support often quite large herds of animals. I suppose putting sewage sludge back on the land would complete the cycle and you would have a pretty closed system.
 
Not convinced any form of farming is ever going to be truly sustainable, but 'extensive' ranching type operations where cattle or other are grazed over a long term native grassland type environment with minimal inputs (including a lot of water use mind) I would consider as replicating natural habitats around the world where big areas of land manage to support often quite large herds of animals. I suppose putting sewage sludge back on the land would complete the cycle and you would have a pretty closed system.
You may well be right that farming can’t be truly sustainable but that can be said for just about anything indeed I’m sure farming can be more sustainable than most activities, be it a foreign holiday or a trip to the pub to watch the footy
 
Joking aside, what's the carbon footprint of manufacturing a new tractor / combine / drill ?
Also, fert and chems ?
I've asked this before, only to be met with tumbleweed.....
Growing tumbleweed = carbon friendly ?
So many questions...
I think we should look at the carbon footprint of fertliser (production, and it's effect on stored soil carbon too) as well as the effect of ploughing on soil carbon. My gut feeling is that organic (with regular ploughing) is far worse than non organic without ploughing. Likewise vegetarian food produced with soil losing carbon is far worse than pasture fed lamb or beef, but where do we find figures to tell us?

I guess the fertliser companies will not be paying for that research, nor will the vegetarian food production companies and as the government likes research to be industry led there will be none done, especially as Carrie and Zac Godsmith seem to run the opinions of Boris Johnson!
 

Kevtherev

Member
Location
Welshpool Powys
I think we should look at the carbon footprint of fertliser (production, and it's effect on stored soil carbon too) as well as the effect of ploughing on soil carbon. My gut feeling is that organic (with regular ploughing) is far worse than non organic without ploughing. Likewise vegetarian food produced with soil losing carbon is far worse than pasture fed lamb or beef, but where do we find figures to tell us?

I guess the fertliser companies will not be paying for that research, nor will the vegetarian food production companies and as the government likes research to be industry led there will be none done, especially as Carrie and Zac Godsmith seem to run the opinions of Boris Johnson!
Pretty sure the Haber Bosch process isn’t very energy efficient.
 

digger64

Member
Cattle that only graze pp only will be quite efficient in terms of carbon I would have thought, but plenty are then housed on ad-Lib (or near) concentrates to finish, which is ultimately no different to the feed lot systems in the US, just on a smaller, less efficient scale.
I am not sure if a 660 kg 13 month finished bull is more or less carbon efficient to a 660 kg 28 month steer finished on grass with a less intensive cereal input ?
 
Location
Devon
From what research I've done you can't actually find anyone to buy carbon credits from grassland farms yet but you can get them for arable land. What the actual fudge is that about?!

It really is quite perverse.
The only way in which carbon credits can be in any way effectual is by providing an income to the owners of natural areas to keep them as they are.
Throughout the life of subsidies and grants, there has always been money for making changes, never for doing the best possible thing which is doing nothing different.

The whole thing could be sorted tomorrow by having a carbon tax and tax breaks for sustainability.
The trouble is, this would be progressive. It would benefit the common man at the expense of the wealthy so will never happen.
 

milkloss

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
East Sussex
From what research I've done you can't actually find anyone to buy carbon credits from grassland farms yet but you can get them for arable land. What the actual fudge is that about?!

Exactly…… you have to damage something and then you’ll be quids in sorting it out later. Plough up all your grass, release huge amounts of carbon and then sell carbon credits when you grow wheat instead.
 

Speculative coverage on the gene editing consultation response

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Speculative coverage on the gene editing consultation response

Written by Defra Press Office

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There has been coverage today in the I and the Guardian, reporting on speculation around the upcoming government response to the recent Gene Editing consultation, which closed on 17th March.

A full government response, which will include a thorough analysis and summary of the responses to the consultation and which will set out our next steps, will be published in due course.

Gene editing has the ability to harness the genetic resources that mother nature has provided, such as breeding...
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