WHY 21kg Tops, DW?

[Northeastfarmer]

The beauty of beef and sheep in the UK but perhaps also it's downfall?

That it’s not consistent?

 

[Wink]

That it’s not consistent?

For the general consumer yes eg supplying supermarkets. I'm playing devil's advocate as I personally am the sort to want something different, know the breed, where it's from etc and that's what I market and sell but supermarkets/customers want or think they want consistency/size/taste/price/convenient etc.???

 

[Lovegoodstock]

A big worry I think, is whilst OP was asking about the non payment of over 21k. It is clear, and to be fair valid, that is the weight the supermarkets want, 17-21 kilo, at the minute if like me you are not creeping, lambs basically costing you nothing per week on the ewe, even with a price drop of 20 ppk in a week which is very rare, you are better off keeping the lamb to hit the 21kilo, or 22/23 to make sure you get payment of 21 kilo, if not creeping and using a tup that doesn't have overly fat lambs you tend not to get into the 4h grades and lose that way, was a joy last summer getting 100s of lambs at 108, but if they get to point of deducting over 21 kilo like the cattle, it makes the job harder, not too much so if you know your breeds and weigh weekly, but not as easy as leaving a 41 kilo another week to make sure of top price

 

[goodevans]

funny how everyone complains about the big abattoirs not paying for weight when the little family butchers will only buy heifers around the 500kg liveweight range ,the big abattoirs are not getting free meat they are getting something they don't want

 

[yellowbelly]

the big abattoirs are not getting free meat they are getting something they don't want

They might not want it but they still sell it - and there's nothing with a bigger profit margin than selling something that you got for free

 

[Northeastfarmer]

They might not want it but they still sell it - and there's nothing with a bigger profit margin than selling something that you got for free

You’re bloody right there...if they don’t want it send it back to me, I’ll have it

 

[goodevans]

They might not want it but they still sell it - and there's nothing with a bigger profit margin than selling something that you got for free

but the opening post said he didn't mind selling the heavier ones at market for less per kg because he got paid for all of it ,don't they all come back as so much a head however you work it .I think abp will tell you if they have a heavy beast in it wont get into the supermarket run and will have to get sold into a different job at less money.As John Uffold would write in the Ludlow market report you don't buy size twelves if your feet are size tens ,you might get more leather for your money but they are not comfortable to wear

 

[Northeastfarmer]

but the opening post said he didn't mind selling the heavier ones at market for less per kg because he got paid for all of it ,don't they all come back as so much a head however you work it .I think abp will tell you if they have a heavy beast in it wont get into the supermarket run and will have to get sold into a different job at less money.As John Uffold would write in the Ludlow market report you don't buy size twelves if your feet are size tens ,you might get more leather for your money but they are not comfortable to wear

They ain’t turning it into a pair of loafers...Most of it’s turned into mince,

 

[yellowbelly]

I think abp will tell you if they have a heavy beast in it wont get into the supermarket run and will have to get sold into a different job at less money.

It will get sold into another job, that's true, and it may be a lesser price but they'll sell the whole weight - they won't give away the weight they 'stole' off you. Big plants have homes for all sizes and grades, that's what they do.

 

[DB67]

Farmers need to understand we are proving a product for consumers. Why should we expect meat processors to give us exactly what we want no matter what we supply them? Any supplier or any product in any industry needs to supply the correct product for their specific market.

We can hump and moan about weight limits all we want but they are in place for reasons that are mainly down to what supermarkets demand. A lot of folk think we should just get paid for a product no matter what. In what other industry would a supplier actually think that? Absolutely none. If a clothing producer gives a retailer shite clothes they will be told to bolt.

Farmers who supply in spec lambs are rewarded. Farmers that supply over fat/lean or overweight lambs or cattle need to actually remember its not just a case of having a animal and selling it, it’s about producing a product for the public to consume and one they demand.

 

[Lovegoodstock]

Agree with your theory of producing a product what they want for the public to consume, and one they demand? But are you rewarded for it? Time and time again we hear r3l 18 kilo is what they want, well do you get a premium? 85/90 % of mine will be e/ u 2,3l, 3h, would leave me a premium of 20 quid a lamb by providing not exactly what they want. Give me 20 quid extra for an r grade lamb I will happily do it. And as for what the consumer demands,,, they really don't have a clue, they supposedly want what the supermarkets dictate to them, ok yes smaller joints due to cost, but fat cover they wouldn't have a clue, price price price,bigger chops at same price would go down well, bigger joints means nothing as will be binned as a large %

 

[Dkb]

They ain’t turning it into a pair of loafers...Most of it’s turned into mince,

Yes but not the steak cuts. for cattle the steak cuts are the profit drivers. And carcass weight is the main driver of steak size. If these steaks become too big they are not as saleable or must have extra time spent on them cutting to market spec. Therefore they’re penalised therefore it’s passed onto farmer.

I think your point of most of it being turned into mince is the very point the factories would make.....they want less mince yield more steak yield per carcass. Quickest way of doing that is producing cattle if the correct weight.

I don’t like it but I accept it.
I don’t sell 25% moisture barley to the mills.

 

[CopperBeech]

Manager at Dunbia told us (and I believe him) that if we could supply him with 6000 lambs at 18kg dw R3L five days a week every week he'd be a very happy man. Consistency is what they want. As it is they're killing lambs from 8 to 25kg dw and have to find various different markets to suit.

Yer. . . . . . thats the plan.. . . . . .

 

[Happy at it]

Abp. in Northern Ireland pay to 22kg at this time of year... Do they not do the same in England?

 

[GTB]

Yer. . . . . . thats the plan.. . . . . .

Just don't work yourselves into the ground doing it....

 

[rancher]

It will get sold into another job, that's true, and it may be a lesser price but they'll sell the whole weight - they won't give away the weight they 'stole' off you. Big plants have homes for all sizes and grades, that's what they do.

,
They have to penalise the overweights if they don't want them, there is no other way to get the message across to farmers, I too have been through the factory and it's so obvious why they need uniform lambs that it should be compulsory for every farmer to see how it works. we've been supplying lambs based on grade for the last 25 years and you don't be long learning......gave away two kgs this week on 46 lambs

 

[sheepwise]

Farmers need to understand we are proving a product for consumers. Why should we expect meat processors to give us exactly what we want no matter what we supply them? Any supplier or any product in any industry needs to supply the correct product for their specific market.

We can hump and moan about weight limits all we want but they are in place for reasons that are mainly down to what supermarkets demand. A lot of folk think we should just get paid for a product no matter what. In what other industry would a supplier actually think that? Absolutely none. If a clothing producer gives a retailer shite clothes they will be told to bolt.

Farmers who supply in spec lambs are rewarded. Farmers that supply over fat/lean or overweight lambs or cattle need to actually remember its not just a case of having a animal and selling it, it’s about producing a product for the public to consume and one they demand.

Spot on.There are far too many badly bred cattle about which simply will not achieve the desired level of finish at the desired weight but for some reason it is the buyers fault. We need to produce a product which gives the customer a good eating experience to ensure they will want to buy again.

 

[twizzel]

I think there's a lot of old school farmers who don't even know what the industry wants and don't know how to grade live lambs. Producing huge cows who eat more and produce out of spec bullocks. We had a huge cull cow go live a few weeks back, hammered on ppk- she was well out of spec weight wise. I think every farmer producing lamb or beef should go on a live to dead day... I went a few weeks ago on a lamb one and learnt so much. For every 600 export lambs there they had to kill a couple hundred more as there were that many out of spec that they had to find homes for elsewhere.

 

[Northeastfarmer]

I think there's a lot of old school farmers who don't even know what the industry wants and don't know how to grade live lambs. Producing huge cows who eat more and produce out of spec bullocks. We had a huge cull cow go live a few weeks back, hammered on ppk- she was well out of spec weight wise. I think every farmer producing lamb or beef should go on a live to dead day... I went a few weeks ago on a lamb one and learnt so much. For every 600 export lambs there they had to kill a couple hundred more as there were that many out of spec that they had to find homes for elsewhere.

Yet big bulls and bullocks are on fire live atm...

 

[twizzel]

Sent our cow 6 weeks too early then