Will fert come down in price ?

[Lemon curd]

Farmers need to realise that there is a massive p+k requirement difference in ' maintaining ' when soil levels are adequate , compared to ' buid up ' when they are low. Build up is a very long term investment of adding more than you take out , at the right time. 1 index of p equates to 350 units and 1 index of k equates to 500 units. I did a trial on a 10 acre 3 cut silage field, pH 6.7 p index 3 , k index 3. Same total N on all field, but put slurry and bagged mop 30 units on half. Weighed and measured fresh cut grass . 12.5 tons /acre 1 st cut compared to 9.25tons/acre. And rb209 would tell you that you didnt need the extra potash at k3. 2nd cut same benefits although total yield lower on all field. Potash uptake by growing plants is higher than offtake.

 

[simmy_bull]

To those who dont believe. Grass will grow without it .

I thought you’d of been a big advocate of putting plenty of fert on?

 

[Brisel]

What are

My previous post in this thread has a link to an article on how tariffs work in the Uk fertiliser market.

Sorry @bobk My link didn't work. Try a hard copy as attached, about WTO rules & EU tariffs on fertiliser imports.

 

[Cowabunga]

Farmers need to realise that there is a massive p+k requirement difference in ' maintaining ' when soil levels are adequate , compared to ' buid up ' when they are low. Build up is a very long term investment of adding more than you take out , at the right time. 1 index of p equates to 350 units and 1 index of k equates to 500 units. I did a trial on a 10 acre 3 cut silage field, pH 6.7 p index 3 , k index 3. Same total N on all field, but put slurry and bagged mop 30 units on half. Weighed and measured fresh cut grass . 12.5 tons /acre 1 st cut compared to 9.25tons/acre. And rb209 would tell you that you didnt need the extra potash at k3. 2nd cut same benefits although total yield lower on all field. Potash uptake by growing plants is higher than offtake.

It used to be said that the maintenance level needed on grazed land was 30P and 30K per acre. Units that is of course. However, if more than 100 units of N are used per season, even if some of that comes from clover, then more like 40 units each are required. I’ve been using that much for years and unless it also gets a dose of slurry or solid muck every couple of years, another 10 units on top. Especially at higher N levels and grass yields.

There’s huge variation here, because some of my land obviously gets cut once or twice and gets slurry. There are three fields that generally only get grazed and get loads of slurry in early Spring, by necessity. So every field situation needs different fertiliser treatment to avoid waste while trying to maximise economic yield.

 

[bluebell]

so what happens with the many that apply no artificial fertilizer or lime for that matter and for want of a better word ranch their land, are they better off? keep your input to a minimum?

 

[Lemon curd]

In that scenario you also have low output, low stocking rate which is ok if you have a large acreage of environmental stewardship £££. I have a bit of both. Stewardship grass grows my lambs, reseeded fields fatten them .

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Sorry @bobk My link didn't work. Try a hard copy as attached, about WTO rules & EU tariffs on fertiliser imports.

Closing sentence on that report made me chuckle and weep at the same time!

 

[ollie989898]

That depends on the grass, and whether there is any clover present. On my old parkland pp I generally only put a small dose of N (25kg N/Ha) on in March, to boost early growth, then the same in the Autumn to extend the season a bit. I’m limited to that total by Glastir, but wouldn’t put more on there anyway.
This Spring, I ran out halfway across the last field, so left it as a trial. I expected to see a distinct line, but there was no difference whatsoever. There’s a bit of clover there, but not a lot, and certainly not enough to contribute much N. It is just unresponsive old shite grass.

The story is very different on decent ryegrass leys of course, which produce every bit as much on low inputs, but many times more when fed well.

Absolutely. More than one way to cook a duck. People with access to larger land areas, or carrying few stock, won't necessarily need the same yield potential, and so can reduce their fertiliser spend.

People (and cattle more to the point) were keeping animals long before fertiliser was invented. They did it by mimicking nature and following the forage (rain usually). No dark arts involved.

 

[Qman]

Sterling might bounce back (and some) next Tuesday, making imported product much cheaper. A lady called Teresa told me it was a distinct possibility.....

If you hear anything from a grey haired old woman called Theresa, don't believe a word of it, she is a pathological liar. She says things like "strong and stable" and "I'm getting on with the job" and "no deal is better than a bad deal" and Brexit means Brexit" Then she does the complete opposite.

AVOID this woman.

 

[Bossfarmer]

is it worth the investment in a slatted shed to get slurry for grassland? i currently only have straw bedded courts

 

[Highland Mule]

is it worth the investment in a slatted shed to get slurry for grassland? i currently only have straw bedded courts

I suspect that it would be, or at least a shed designed to minimise straw use. I’m only a small user in that area, but it strikes me as being a chunky part of the cost - assuming that it is costed at the price you’d get, rather than fudging the grain side and charging cattle cop.

 

[Bossfarmer]

I suspect that it would be, or at least a shed designed to minimise straw use. I’m only a small user in that area, but it strikes me as being a chunky part of the cost - assuming that it is costed at the price you’d get, rather than fudging the grain side and charging cattle cop.

im not including straw in the costs as i need plenty dung as i grow cereals, im talking strictly on fert savings for grassland? id prob have maintenance costs in handling the slurry too?

 

[neilo]

im not including straw in the costs as i need plenty dung as i grow cereals, im talking strictly on fert savings for grassland? id prob have maintenance costs in handling the slurry too?

On that basis, surely the cereals your feeding the cattle is making that dung you need too, so you shouldn't include that against the cattle either?

 

[Farma Parma]

Why the pressure to buy now with 3 to 4 months till you need it?

You have little choice the only time to buy most Fert products is as early in the season before as possible.
Nitram for instance was around the £216-222 mark mid june where is it today ? guessing nearly £300 now.
If you cant buy it then for storage reasons then sorry its no good whinging.
There is plenty cheap finance to be had to buy it.
9/10 times as the season drags on it only gets dearer.

 

[Still Farming]

Good Clover mix reduces bag bought N substantially.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

so what happens with the many that apply no artificial fertilizer or lime for that matter and for want of a better word ranch their land, are they better off? keep your input to a minimum?

Probably.

Although ryegrass tends to look fantastic (and on analysis reports) - farmers tend to have well-worn dosing guns, plenty of money sunk into iron, mineral supplementation, and so are just as hungry as everyone else, as they have higher costs to claw back before profit.
But a "noticeable" bit busier!

Easy for me to say, in NZ most ryegrasses have high endophyte to combat ASW and so fert&fashion are mostly for looks; it is the grazing that determines the profit per hectare, and little matter what it is you graze.
Lambs do better away off ryegrass for this reason; you'd gain an extra 50-60g per day on average by keeping it out.

In many situations switching away from the type of system you described is to simply to diminish the resilience of your farm business.
No doubt you will see, in due course, which systems will stand up to stress.