Will No till put paid to the plough ? asks a piece in the FT.

[Two Tone]

One of our better bits this year

One als-ran taken a month (7/11/23) after drilling (5/10/23) into burned Linseed stubble and still not looking that much better now.

But it will make a crop.

Winter beans drilled 17/10/23. Photo taken12/1/24

 

[Farma Parma]

alot on here are saying one advantage of min/no till is less kit , thats not what im seeing as anyone i see going down that route still has a plough ,power harrow ,drill ect plus all equipment associated with min/no till

thats a fact they actually spend even more money & run both systems we all guilty one way or the other

 

[Vader]

that is easy to prove.

we had an 18 month archaeological dig here, covering the whole farm, there has been continuous farming here, for 3,500 yrs.

when they dig a pit, they go down to the 'natural', or original soil level, some went down over 6ft, showing the soil loss/movement. And apparently we were pretty good ! The why, because the ancient field boundaries indicated big fields, we were stock orientated, arable had small fields.
Some farms had soil movement in excess of 20ft.

Add on run off, as we all know about, soil has been lost for centuries. Modern ploughing, in conjunction with EA failure to control, is why rivers need dredging. Some rivers have about 25% of volume, compared to 50yrs ago,

Wish we has soil depth of 6 ft!!
6 inch to rock in places!!

Think more to it that just ploughing.
We got drains from under permanent grass running brown with obviously soil content.
Farming is so complicated farm to farm, soil type to soil type. Nothing works everywhere and unfortunately defra thinks it does.

 

[Henarar]

Because of the erosion coming out of the estuaries

That must have always happened or the mountains would be very high

 

[Vader]

There also isn’t a soil type that’s unsuitable for direct drilling, it’s only an excuse people use for their shortcomings in management.

quite a statement....

 

[SilliamWhale]

That must have always happened or the mountains would be very high

It has, but it's expensive in agricultural terms and in environmental terms.

 

[lloyd]

People just don’t seem to realise that spending 100k on a drill is no more likely to make them a successful no till farmer than you spending 25k on a plough and expecting to be the world ploughing champion!
There also isn’t a soil type that’s unsuitable for direct drilling, it’s only an excuse people use for their shortcomings in management.
99.8% of our autumn dd’ed crops this year look excellent on high Mg clay. Here’s a couple of photos of some triticale 1.5l glyphosate pre drilling, no starter fert, no insecticide.
View attachment 1161722View attachment 1161723

We ploughed two fields this autumn, one we spread 7000 tonnes of silt on out of a pond and that is also 100% establishment. The other one was ploughed to clean it up, it hadn’t been cropped for a few years and that is only 80%.

high mg clay soils as you know can be tight and sticky ,is that through the whole
profile or the surface as your pictures don't show drainage issues to be too bad.
I expect your average rainfall looking at your location is way behind the West and North
of England.
In a high rainfall area like this county and on the heavier soils after the first week of October
trailed direct drills were going nowhere.Going forward everyone will have to just get drilled up by the end of
Sep .

 

[Derrick Hughes]

No one would use a ploughed field for a car park even if its harrowed and rolled, no more to say then is there

 

[Farma Parma]

quite a statement....

Just a bit eh. each too there own i guess

 

[lloyd]

Just a bit eh. each too there own i guess

Soil type is only one variable ,average rainfall amounts make all the difference.
I would hazard a guess that the Surrey/Kent border is in a lowish rainfall catchment.

 

[Farma Parma]

No one would use a ploughed field for a car park even if its harrowed and rolled, no more to say then is there

thats a bit like saying no one would drill into a tarmac road neither isnt it ??? bit puzzled here.

 

[Vader]

Just a bit eh. each too there own i guess

I do find it strange that the DD fanatics think the rest of us farmers are useless and don't know what we doing.
I have no problem with DD if it works for them.

 

[Simon Chiles]

Soil type is only one variable ,average rainfall amounts make all the difference.
I would hazard a guess that the Surrey/Kent border is in a lowish rainfall catchment.

Common misconception right there, our average rainfall is normally between 900 and 1000mm per year. I drilled most of our crops mid September to 3rd week of September. The latest crop I drilled this season was 9th October which was too late for my liking, had it been a few days later it would have to have been a spring crop.
We dug 4m deep of silt out of the pond, it was full by the third week of October, it’s only filled by the rain off a 6 ha field.

 

[som farmer]

well our grass fields haven't been ploughed for several yrs, just dd or min-til

they have been the wettest ever, that l can recall, worried about surface panning this spring.

they have simply dried out, grass is growing

coincidence or a result ? I don't really know.

 

[Simon Chiles]

I do find it strange that the DD fanatics think the rest of us farmers are useless and don't know what we doing.

Another misconception, you've got it the wrong way round. We’re saying the that just buying a direct drill doesn’t make you an expert, just as buying a plough doesn’t make you a ploughman. I see people direct drilling and it’s almost like it’s a competition to see who can make it go in the most appalling conditions and are totally ignoring the basics of the system which is to preserve soil structure. It’s hardly surprising that there are failures. Subsidies for direct drills and SFI payments for direct drilling are only going to exacerbate the situation.

 

[lloyd]

Subsidies for direct drills and SFI payments for direct drilling are only going to exacerbate the situation.

Looks like subsidies are here to stay after all.(For some).

Large scale cereal farmers have been

1. DD already
2.Reducing their pesticide use due to resistance
3.Using variable rate fertiliser applications to increase productivity.
4.Already looking at the next step in sprayer technology to reduce herbicide usage.

The above 4 eligible for payments gets most of their bps back for doing what a large
scale efficient business would have done/been doing anyway.

Wouldn't this money have been better spent on the NHS?

 

[T Hectares]

high mg clay soils as you know can be tight and sticky ,is that through the whole
profile or the surface as your pictures don't show drainage issues to be too bad.
I expect your average rainfall looking at your location is way behind the West and North
of England.
In a high rainfall area like this county and on the heavier soils after the first week of October
trailed direct drills were going nowhere.Going forward everyone will have to just get drilled up by the end of
Sep .

Your last statement is one of the important aspects to take on with DD
It’s not just replace the drill and keep the same management, DD does need to be a week or two earlier in the Autumn and later in the spring, it’s less forgiving so needs to be in as good a condition so earlier in the Autumn

 

[Simon Chiles]

Wouldn't this money have been better spent on the NHS?

Yes, or the police.

I don’t get and never have had a subsidy, it’s one of the things that concentrated my mind on making it work.
It’s also the reason that we’ll see increasing numbers of dd failures.

 

[Vader]

Another misconception, you've got it the wrong way round. We’re saying the that just buying a direct drill doesn’t make you an expert, just as buying a plough doesn’t make you a ploughman. I see people direct drilling and it’s almost like it’s a competition to see who can make it go in the most appalling conditions and are totally ignoring the basics of the system which is to preserve soil structure. It’s hardly surprising that there are failures. Subsidies for direct drills and SFI payments for direct drilling are only going to exacerbate the situation.

Sorry but your statement before basically says that if you can not DD your management skills are $hit£...

 

[snarling bee]

Two words

Blackgrass
Brome

I am awaiting delivery of a new plough.
Combine yield meter will go from 4 t/ha where there is blackgrass to 12 t/ha where there is none (Lexion so reduce by 30%) Can I afford NOT to plough?? I can't afford BG, ergot, massive chem stacks, too many spring crops, and late drilling disruption.

Walked over a mid October drilled 3rd wheat that had been ploughed. BG was dreadful. Saw 3 BG plants, one where the plough landwork met the headlands, one arising from under a clod, and one in a hare scrape. Min till or DD would have been a disaster in that field or we would be growing a much less profitable spring crop.
I intend to rotationally plough 20/25% or on a need to basis.