Wolf attacks increasing

[CharcoalWally]

I think you've got to try to get an idea of how many apex predators there would be and how many fewer meso predators there would be.

Then you have to work out what prey species would be available to the apex predators that weren't available to the meso predators eg deer.

Then calculate what impact those changed population numbers would have on prey species.

It's not straightforward.

Only us silly human beings think it's not straightforward. Apex predators think it's very straightforward.

Clear off the opposition and then eat what you like. Couldn't be simpler. Predators aren't interested in "conservation," and they have no conscience. Deer , sheep , it's all the same to them.

 

[Fallowfield]

Nope!

They respect no land boundaries. "Disperser" males can cover hundreds of miles looking for new packs.

The British wolf is exticnt. Any "reintroduced" animal will be a foreign species.

The foreign Mackenzie Valley (Canadian timber wolf) is causing havoc in the lower 48.

What species was the British wolf?

What species would be reintroduced?

How do they differ?

 

[betweenthelines]

To paraphrase the french queen

"Let them eat vegans"

 

[SLA]

The problem with the british rewilding enthusiasts is they seem to have no concept of scale, in reality there are no areas of true wilderness in the uk, certainly nothing of the size and scale required for a healthy and viable population of a predator such as a wolf, lynx or bear.
The “they won’t eat sheep they’ll just eat deer” argument is ridiculed for good reason, if it was the reintroduction of foxes, no doubt we’d be being told “they won’t eat lambs or poultry they’ll just eat rabbits”......

 

[Juggler]

 

[Juggler]

Look at the above link to see how big they can get.[emoji44]

 

[Tom_o_m]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-44538965/wolves-in-france-farmers-fear-attacks

 

[CornishTone]

I posted this on another thread so the Wooly Mammoth bit may seem a little out of context, but I think the overall point is relevant to the reintroduction of wolves...

“I quite like the idea of seeing Wooly Mammoth but, as you rightly allude to, the world has moved on and evolved in the absence of the big, apex predators. The eco loonies always cite the Yellowstone wolves as evidence that they should be reinstated in the UK, but what they fail to mention is that those wolves were only out of that ecosystem for a matter of decades.

In the UK they have been absent for hundreds, if not thousands in some cases, of years and the countryside is a product of that absence. They would wilfully destroy many ecosystems to replace them with one ideological and flawed, utopian ecosystem, based on the dream of a few, which will ultimately fail.

But I’d still like to see a Mammoth!”

 

[CornishTone]

That is a big wolf! Ballsy dog to go after it a second time![emoji33]

 

[Ffermer Bach]

And how many sheep?

when I lived in Denmark, there were hardly any sheep there, and if I remember there didn't seem to be many people living in the countryside either, they all lived in towns.

 

[SLA]

Watched a few wildlife programmes recently where they are starting to link an increase in problem wolves ( I can’t remember if Canada or Alaska) with cross breeding with dogs, aparently they are less cautious and bolder. The other problem was them coming into towns to raid tips, the more they saw people the less afraid they became and then they became dangerous- killing dogs etc. What was clear was the only reason they weren’t killing people is because the locals knew the precautions to take - always aware of them being a risk and behaving accordingly, one being carrying a gun.
Lynx are a stupid idea in the uk but anything bigger shows what lunatics these people are. If they want to live with these species go move to somewhere they already live!

 

[Dry Rot]

Apparently, the conservationists have woken up to the fact that the indigenous Black Rat is a threatened species. I have long campaigned for it's reintroduction into it's native habitat, in short, central London. Preferably Whitehall where those who are concerned can keep a close eye on it's welfare. But will they listen?

If Messrs Fallowfield and ptarmigan are genuinely concerned about British wildlife, perhaps they ought to put their money where their mouths are and give a breeding colony of Black Rats a home.

 

[Tim W]

This gets to be a very emotive subject very quickly & it's not surprising when peoples livelihoods are at stake

As a sheep farmer & as someone who would actually spend some time looking to view a wolf or Lynx in the wild i think that for the UK sheep industry the re-introduction of Lynx would not be a large problem ---however for an individual sheep farmer it could be devastating

Wolves? I attend a sheep conference in Germany most years and in the last 10 years the discussion has gone from '' lets see how it works out'' to ''who has been forced out of business in the last 12 months''
Surely it's just common sense that we are too heavily populated (humans) and too intolerant of human loss for Wolves to be introduced in UK---even Whitehall must see that?

 

[CornishTone]

Watched a few wildlife programmes recently where they are starting to link an increase in problem wolves ( I can’t remember if Canada or Alaska) with cross breeding with dogs, aparently they are less cautious and bolder. The other problem was them coming into towns to raid tips, the more they saw people the less afraid they became and then they became dangerous- killing dogs etc. What was clear was the only reason they weren’t killing people is because the locals knew the precautions to take - always aware of them being a risk and behaving accordingly, one being carrying a gun.
Lynx are a stupid idea in the uk but anything bigger shows what lunatics these people are. If they want to live with these species go move to somewhere they already live!

Feral/former domestic dogs breeding with Dingos here have become a massive problem in some areas here. Ballsy, powerful and very clever. Trapping and destroying happen regularly by the authorities. Problem is pure bred Dingos are, of course, protected, so at what point, and how do you tell, does it become a feral dog and fair game and not a Dingo. DNA test is the only way really but that gets expensive and time consuming. Sadly there are very few pure bred Dingos left, so would be a crying shame to destroy one “accidentally”. @Farmer Roy will have more experience over his neck of the woods I’d imagine.

This is one of two we saw on a recent trip up through South Australia. I thought it a real treat to see them in the wild!

 

[glasshouse]

Plenty of wolves in scotland.
They are easily spotted as they wear pink trousers and tweed.

 

[Dry Rot]

Feral/former domestic dogs breeding with Dingos here have become a massive problem in some areas here. Ballsy, powerful and very clever. Trapping and destroying happen regularly by the authorities. Problem is pure bred Dingos are, of course, protected, so at what point, and how do you tell, does it become a feral dog and fair game and not a Dingo. DNA test is the only way really but that gets expensive and time consuming. Sadly there are very few pure bred Dingos left, so would be a crying shame to destroy one “accidentally”. @Farmer Roy will have more experience over his neck of the woods I’d imagine.

View attachment 684244
This is one of two we saw on a recent trip up through South Australia. I thought it a real treat to see them in the wild!

It's a similar story with the genuine Scottish wildcat. They hybredise with domestic cats. The wild cat is protected but the hybreds are not. The only sure way to find out which is which is after they are dead. Cats are a lot easier to call and shoot than foxes up here.

 

[beefandsleep]

It's a similar story with the genuine Scottish wildcat. They hybredise with domestic cats. The wild cat is protected but the hybreds are not. The only sure way to find out which is which is after they are dead. Cats are a lot easier to call and shoot than foxes up here.

How do you call them? Squeaky mouse or do you shout “here kitty kitty”?

 

[SLA]

I very much doubt that the wildcats would benefit in anyway from the introduction of lynx, or the capercaillie or many other small mammals. Did anyone see the programme on the NAZI rewilding plans? They wanted to create a large hunting forest and recreate the auroch? Or any of the articles on the Dutch rewilding project? Or the fact that powers that be wanted to “reforest” one of the Scottish islands as it was historically referred to as a hunting forest, although the historical term of hunting forest was an area of hunting and had no relation to woodlands.
Or the programme on the eagle owls that have appeared and are breeding in the wild, they do not have any legal protection because the conservation bodies refuse to give them the official native recognition as they don’t want them here, apparently they could only be released/escaped individuals so not meant to be here - no irony there at all!

 

[joe soapy]

Apparently, the conservationists have woken up to the fact that the indigenous Black Rat is a threatened species. I have long campaigned for it's reintroduction into it's native habitat, in short, central London. Preferably Whitehall where those who are concerned can keep a close eye on it's welfare. But will they listen?

If Messrs Fallowfield and ptarmigan are genuinely concerned about British wildlife, perhaps they ought to put their money where their mouths are and give a breeding colony of Black Rats a home.

Have seen it written that you are never more than 10ft away from a rat in London

 

[joe soapy]

when i was small there was an irish wolfhound in the village that did a lot of damage before getting stopped