Wood biomass dodgy installer help/advice appreciated

[Happiness]

You are both so right. Biomass plumbing is a lot more specialised than most folk think. I think due to the explosion of the RHI ever one with a tool box jumped in and made some big cock ups putting the end user in the Poo.

Some of the mistakes I have seen are daft - pipe leaves boiler in 3" and the first thing they do is step it down by half! Client then complains boiler is not performing.

Suppose it's like this in every industry, what can be done to stop it though?

Well I thought that what the regulatory bodies were there for.

 

[Johnnyboxer]

Did you pay for the £30k installation yourself outright or did you finance it on HP?

 

[Happiness]

All systems are different.
I know the basics are simular but as said pipe sizes -runs-insulation-buffer tank size etc.etc are all critical ?
So many tried to get on "band wagon" but were not commercial plumbers .

Schematic attached

Sorry IMR -Independant meter or metering reports-this is a condition of the rhi scheme?they may have done it them selves???-on your application records there should be this along with tallying approved meters and sensors photo's and id records.
If you rhi and i guess you say you do when you log in the drop down tabs will show any agreements signed and online records -that's what YOU have agreed to so check it asap is best .
These so called local installers are they still trading ?
Did you see any other works they works they did ?
Has anyone else they did simular works for got or had trouble ???
It is complex and if you haven't done any system works or research or Ofgem involvements with it with the rhi then you'll have a shock as lot to it ?
If we all on here can help we will try our best !

I have attached the Schematic

that the installer provided.

Did you pay for the £30k installation yourself outright or did you finance it on HP?

We financed some of it but we took a bank loan for it as well. about half and half.

 

[Johnnyboxer]

We financed some of it but we took a bank loan for it as well. about half and half.

Pity..........had it been on Lease or HP, there may have been someone to help chase up the installer/supplier on your behalf

 

[Still Farming]

Schematic attached



I have attached the SchematicView attachment 450062 that the installer provided.



We financed some of it but we took a bank loan for it as well. about half and half.

THAT'S IT ????
OFGEM APPROVED THAT ???
No details what ever ?
No flow and return schematic -meters-probes -pipe size-ANYTHING ?
How did the application get approved on that ???
How long ago was it passed ?
Anyhow looks like direct to indirect system to my un -qualified eye .
Why the buffer tank then more hot water tanks -this most prob. the losses in heat transfering all the time is wasted.
Is your boiler doing heating and water heating .
Is this all on your rhi application -don't put all on here as public but there should be paper trail of signed off Ofgem check list stuff too.
Does fathom belief on 1st look though ???

 

[Happiness]

THAT'S IT ????
OFGEM APPROVED THAT ???
No details what ever ?
No flow and return schematic -meters-probes -pipe size-ANYTHING ?
How did the application get approved on that ???
How long ago was it passed ?
Anyhow looks like direct to indirect system to my un -qualified eye .
Why the buffer tank then more hot water tanks -this most prob. the losses in heat transfering all the time is wasted.
Is your boiler doing heating and water heating .
Is this all on your rhi application -don't put all on here as public but there should be paper trail of signed off Ofgem check list stuff too.
Does fathom belief on 1st look though ???

I kid you not. PM you other stuff in a sec.

 

[Still Farming]

The amount of hoop's to jump through and years to do it in the early years when the scheme started this is a true mockery ?
When was your system approved ?

 

[Happiness]

The amount of hoop's to jump through and years to do it in the early years when the scheme started this is a true mockery ?
When was your system approved ?

December 2015

 

[Happiness]

December 2015

Sorry, it was commissioned Dec 2015, it was approved about June 2016

 

[Happiness]

THAT'S IT ????
OFGEM APPROVED THAT ???
No details what ever ?
No flow and return schematic -meters-probes -pipe size-ANYTHING ?
How did the application get approved on that ???
How long ago was it passed ?
Anyhow looks like direct to indirect system to my un -qualified eye .
Why the buffer tank then more hot water tanks -this most prob. the losses in heat transfering all the time is wasted.
Is your boiler doing heating and water heating .
Is this all on your rhi application -don't put all on here as public but there should be paper trail of signed off Ofgem check list stuff too.
Does fathom belief on 1st look though ???

System is Heating and water heating. Pumps were prototype pumps from this company http://www.minibems.com/. We paid for the pumps, in our invoice / quote, and were not told prior to the work starting that we were basically guinea pigs for the pumps. So no warranty on those.

 

[Still Farming]

If proven plumbers why use them ?
Grunfos the best (maybe others ?) ?
Looks like you could fill this Forum with this -Sad !

 

[brigadoon]

Noting your comments on all the various technical issues - have you got a moisture meter? You said you spent £4000 on timber for one year which should equate to about 70-80 tonnes - there is an awful lot of heat being wasted if that is timber that is actually ready to burn - certainly more than enough to heat 2 properties for a year.

I think early on you said buffer tank was never getting up to temp - it should be boiling with that amount of fuel going through the boiler.

 

[Happiness]

Noting your comments on all the various technical issues - have you got a moisture meter? You said you spent £4000 on timber for one year which should equate to about 70-80 tonnes - there is an awful lot of heat being wasted if that is timber that is actually ready to burn - certainly more than enough to heat 2 properties for a year.

I think early on you said buffer tank was never getting up to temp - it should be boiling with that amount of fuel going through the boiler.

We have a moisture meter. Wood is always no more than about 20%. If anything it may be even dryer than that. I agree with you.

 

[Happiness]

If proven plumbers why use them ?
Grunfos the best (maybe others ?) ?
Looks like you could fill this Forum with this -Sad !

We were not told what pumps / mixers they were going to use and knew nothing about pump / mixer brands brands. It was once work had commenced they threw this on us.

 

[it's not over]

Good thread good read. Hope you get sorted. Look at the rhi scheme here in ni for a fiasco.

 

[Still Farming]

We were not told what pumps / mixers they were going to use and knew nothing about pump / mixer brands brands. It was once work had commenced they threw this on us.

You must have been "totally in the dark"and they had "cartblanch"did they ?
Did you pay em in one go or bits ?
This could be "tip of ice berge " with it all ?
Have you tracked any other customers who had simular fitted ???

 

[Happiness]

You must have been "totally in the dark"and they had "cartblanch"did they ?
Did you pay em in one go or bits ?
This could be "tip of ice berge " with it all ?
Have you tracked any other customers who had simular fitted ???

We paid them in bits. However, they did not follow MCS guidelines in that the took a deposit of over 25% prior to the commencement of work which NAPIT not happy about either. We gave them £12000 about a month before they commenced work. We were told the £12000 was for the 40kw CTC boiler.

Obviously at the time we didn't know about the 25% rule nor did we question the price of boiler. As you say they really did do a carte blanche on us.

 

[Happiness]

You must have been "totally in the dark"and they had "cartblanch"did they ?
Did you pay em in one go or bits ?
This could be "tip of ice berge " with it all ?
Have you tracked any other customers who had simular fitted ???

No we have not tracked down anyone linked with this company....yet...

 

[Happiness]

Another thing is we didn't get building regs certificate until AFTER we reported them to NAPIT, 1 year later.

 

[Still Farming]

Commissioning cert.is it ?