Woodland thinning who pays who?

[cjt]

We have around 50 acres of woodland which is a mixture of hard and softwood.
A tree surgeon has approached and offered to thin the wood in exchange for the firewood from it. He has suggested it would be a straight swap without any money changing hands. I was wondering if this is an acceptable deal or if the owner should be profiting out of this. Another option could be for us to ask for a certain amount of firewood. If anyone has any experience of deal like this I would be grateful of some advise.
Thanks

 

[suffolksmallholder]

My immediate reaction is one of horror. You need to put some kind of order in place else whose to say which trees he's felling, who clears up the mess created? How long will the timber produced be stored on site. Working the actual value based on £50+ per ton roadside.... All those things.....Along with the long term view for the benefit of the woodland & its future produce, not simply taking the biggest sticks for burning.
SS

 

[woodworm]

We have around 50 acres of woodland which is a mixture of hard and softwood.
A tree surgeon has approached and offered to thin the wood in exchange for the firewood from it. He has suggested it would be a straight swap without any money changing hands. I was wondering if this is an acceptable deal or if the owner should be profiting out of this. Another option could be for us to ask for a certain amount of firewood. If anyone has any experience of deal like this I would be grateful of some advise.
Thanks

Nooooooo, dont do it. Where are you based?

 

[PSQ]

I’m guessing the softwood was planted to shelter the hardwood, and therefore only the softwood will need thinning?

Or is the tree surgeon after taking out some nice hardwood too, like every ash tree he can find....

 

[Feldspar]

We have around 50 acres of woodland which is a mixture of hard and softwood.
A tree surgeon has approached and offered to thin the wood in exchange for the firewood from it. He has suggested it would be a straight swap without any money changing hands. I was wondering if this is an acceptable deal or if the owner should be profiting out of this. Another option could be for us to ask for a certain amount of firewood. If anyone has any experience of deal like this I would be grateful of some advise.
Thanks

We have done this recently. Depends on the growth stage of the woodland. Earlier on in a woodland's life you need to cut a lot of trees down for a given volume of timber which is less efficient and more costly. At these stages (say after 20 years) the thinning in exchange for thinned timber seems the normal deal. In successive thinnings you would then expect to see a financial return.

 

[A1an]

We have done this recently. Depends on the growth stage of the woodland. Earlier on in a woodland's life you need to cut a lot of trees down for a given volume of timber which is less efficient and more costly. At these stages (say after 20 years) the thinning in exchange for thinned timber seems the normal deal. In successive thinnings you would then expect to see a financial return.

Yep.

Very little value in first thinnings, you just need to make sure he is thinning for the benefit of the woodland and not for the benefit of his wood pile.

 

[woodworm]

Yep.

Very little value in first thinnings.

If you are in England on relatively flat to slightly sloping ground this is absolute tosh. On the other hand if you are in Scotland on 10ft deep peat its a fair comment.

 

[A1an]

If you are in England on relatively flat to slightly sloping ground this is absolute tosh. On the other hand if you are in Scotland on 10ft deep peat its a fair comment.

Point taken, I never took in to consideration the location.

 

[Feldspar]

If you are in England on relatively flat to slightly sloping ground this is absolute tosh. On the other hand if you are in Scotland on 10ft deep peat its a fair comment.

We had a chap out who is a forester to act independently to advise us. The advice was as per what I said above. Checked with a friend who works in estate management for Savills and he said that was fair given what he's seen. Maybe I did miss something though.

 

[cjt]

Thanks for your replies. We are near Cardiff. The tree surgeon is keen to show us what he has done to his woodland which is just up the road. He seems very keen on the conservation side of things and no doubt on the profit as well. I do know him already so I’m prepared to trust him slightly. The wood is on a hill which is strangely wet and boggy considering the gradient.

 

[renewablejohn]

Sorry but if its first thinning and you want a proper job doing taking out the nursery trees then I would expect to be paid 250 a day plus the disposal of any timber removed.
Sounds to me a cowboy wanting to rip the good stuff out the wood and leave the rubbish. Easily sorted by dot painting all trees to remain and taking pictures.

 

[woodworm]

We had a chap out who is a forester to act independently to advise us. The advice was as per what I said above. Checked with a friend who works in estate management for Savills and he said that was fair given what he's seen. Maybe I did miss something though.

If you are in East Anglia your thinnings are worth SOMETHING, it may not be much but they are worth something, and companies like Suffolk Woodchips would be able to pay you for the whole tree, not just the stem, leaving you with a clear forest floor where you then have easy access for shooting or underplanting with other species which can then be harvested for energy at a later date

 

[renewablejohn]

We have around 50 acres of woodland which is a mixture of hard and softwood.
A tree surgeon has approached and offered to thin the wood in exchange for the firewood from it. He has suggested it would be a straight swap without any money changing hands. I was wondering if this is an acceptable deal or if the owner should be profiting out of this. Another option could be for us to ask for a certain amount of firewood. If anyone has any experience of deal like this I would be grateful of some advise.
Thanks

How old is the woodland and when was it last thinned.

 

[cjt]

Not sure of exact age of woodland but I seem to think it is around 100 years. No thinning in the last 20 years. I doubt it has ever been thinned from my very limited knowledge. Just about concluded that as long has he does a good job no money needs to change hands.

 

[woodworm]

Not sure of exact age of woodland but I seem to think it is around 100 years. No thinning in the last 20 years. I doubt it has ever been thinned from my very limited knowledge. Just about concluded that as long has he does a good job no money needs to change hands.

That would be madness

 

[renewablejohn]

Not sure of exact age of woodland but I seem to think it is around 100 years. No thinning in the last 20 years. I doubt it has ever been thinned from my very limited knowledge. Just about concluded that as long has he does a good job no money needs to change hands.

In that case you would be mad not to clear fell and replace a compartment at a time. Any thinning of that age of woodland would kill the remaining woodland anyway. Would sell the timber as standing woodland and you would have plenty of buyers.

 

[woodworm]

@cjt where abouts is the wood? (County or nearest town)

 

[renewablejohn]

Thanks for your replies. We are near Cardiff. The tree surgeon is keen to show us what he has done to his woodland which is just up the road. He seems very keen on the conservation side of things and no doubt on the profit as well. I do know him already so I’m prepared to trust him slightly. The wood is on a hill which is strangely wet and boggy considering the gradient.

Woodworm I think you missed this.

 

[woodworm]

Oops