Worlds gone f***ing mad!

[DaveGrohl]

New Zealand to price sheep and cow burps to cut greenhouse gases

New Zealand on Wednesday released a draft plan to put a price on agricultural emissions in a bid to tackle one of the country's biggest sources of greenhouse gases — belching sheep and cattle.

www.reuters.com

I can’t actually believe what I’m reading. How thick are these people? And the "farming representatives"? The science really isn‘t that difficult to understand. How in God’s Earth has this unbelievably stupid idea been allowed to fester to the point where it has emerged into the light of day and become an actual policy proposal?!?

NZ have to realise that they're opening Pandora’s Box here. Other govts will look at this and seize on it because it‘s an easy answer to the narrative from those making the most money from the bullsh1t narrative. This is absolutely insane. What a time to be alive.

 

[glasshouse]

Can’t wait till the day we get to say “ we told you so” what I ever get is how money tax offsets carbon ??? Are the notes think carbon wedges ?? What a load of horse poo, we are 5 years away from a mini world melt down / if not sooner

Five months

 

[glasshouse]

I can’t actually believe what I’m reading. How thick are these people? And the "farming representatives"? The science really isn‘t that difficult to understand. How in God’s Earth has this unbelievably stupid idea been allowed to fester to the point where it has emerged into the light of day and become an actual policy proposal?!?

NZ have to realise that they're opening Pandora’s Box here. Other govts will look at this and seize on it because it‘s an easy answer to the narrative from those making the most money from the bullsh1t narrative. This is absolutely insane. What a time to be alive.

The farmers should refuse to pay

 

[Wuffler]

It certainly does look that way.
I did not read the whole thing but is the immense NZ grassland not taken into account when it grows there for most of the year absorbing utilising CO2?

Howay Pete man, you can't use simple honest words like 'absorbing'. The current terminology (because it sounds good) is 'sequestering' Get with the plan man!
NB: the meaning of sequester is to hide away. Absorb sounds a little more honest...

 

[cb387]

In the article it says it was helped to be put together by ‘farm community representatives’ Do you have people representing your industry there who are even more useless / working against the industry they should be fighting for than our dear NFU?

 

[kiwi pom]

In the article it says it was helped to be put together by ‘farm community representatives’ Do you have people representing your industry there who are even more useless / working against the industry they should be fighting for than our dear NFU?

I don't pay a lot of attention to it so could be wrong but I think the government said, come up with your own ideas (that we'll accept) or we'll do it for you.
Doing nothing wasn't an option.

 

[FonterraFarmer]

I can’t actually believe what I’m reading. How thick are these people? And the "farming representatives"? The science really isn‘t that difficult to understand. How in God’s Earth has this unbelievably stupid idea been allowed to fester to the point where it has emerged into the light of day and become an actual policy proposal?!?

NZ have to realise that they're opening Pandora’s Box here. Other govts will look at this and seize on it because it‘s an easy answer to the narrative from those making the most money from the bullsh1t narrative. This is absolutely insane. What a time to be alive.

Our government is thick as at sh!t....or was that horse???

 

[Global ovine]

I don't pay a lot of attention to it so could be wrong but I think the government said, come up with your own ideas (that we'll accept) or we'll do it for you.
Doing nothing wasn't an option.

Exactly. It was "devise your own industry solution or have the current emissions trading scheme (ETS) imposed", that which will be imposed on all other sectors. That was not a option as under the current carbon price of $NZ85/T it would put every farmer out of business. Even at half that price, almost all pastoral farmers would be uneconomic and cropping would be limited to no-till and less than half the fertiliser usage.

I agree that the basic argument is flawed regarding global methane emissions, but countries are signed up to reducing their national emissions and that means in NZ's case (Rep. of Ireland is similar) agriculture accounts for half of all NZ's emissions. Despite reducing GHG emissions from pastoral farming since 1990, ag. is half, whereas transport has increased theirs by 76% over those 3 decades.

Global protein markets for importing meat and dairy products are now requiring information supported by data for all sorts of conditions from animal welfare to environmental footprint. NZ's wealth is built upon exporting agricultural produce. To keep and grow these markets NZ must conform. NZ's carbon footprint is currently the lowest per kg of red meat and dairy landed to market, a position that is highly valued throughout the value chain.
The proposal includes on-farm sequestration (forest, scrub lands, shelter belts, riparian plantings and wetland restoration..........all paid for out of tax paid income) and methane reducing systems (low methane producing livestock, feed additives and technologies yet to be discovered/developed).

All revenues gathered to go into a research fund to develop new technologies.

The price farmers pay per kg of C to be set initially at a 95% discount. But Gov't is still to plan and price where that figure will go.

Unfortunately, it is the extensive hill and high country farms (those currently farming closer to nature than all other farm types) that will be most impacted. God save us from madness!

The line in the sand drawn by the UN still remains, "food production must not be reduced".

If this does impact on NZ's food production, other less efficient countries will fill that space. NZ's politicians need reminding that warming is a global issue, not a national issue.

 

[e3120]

In theory you should be able to breed animals which are lower methane producers. They want a reduction in animal ag in order to drop methane emissions ...... we all know that’s shite but you have to play the game. So they want less animals for less methane, so let’s try same number or more animals, less methane. And now let’s get their house in order ?

You mustn't accept the narrative. Only one thing is to be expected if you give a fiver to a tenner-demanding thug on your doorstep.

 

[Global ovine]

In theory you should be able to breed animals which are lower methane producers. They want a reduction in animal ag in order to drop methane emissions ...... we all know that’s shite but you have to play the game. So they want less animals for less methane, so let’s try same number or more animals, less methane. And now let’s get their house in order ?

Spelling out the results of research to date;

• low methane emission sheep exist, the research has been done and quantified.
• best sheep emit 13% less than average. Worst 15% more than average. Normal distribution curve.
• if most maternal breed stock rams used in studs were ranked better than average, the NZ national flock would improve by 1% pa.
• purchasing maternal rams from the top 10% of breeders for the traits Methane and Growth would increase the progress by about 4% pa.
• it would be faster progress by increasing lamb growth by 10% as the longer an animal lives, the more methane it emits.
• there is no case for livestock reduction, but strong case for improved grazing management.
• the increased use of legumes is key.
• the dairy and beef industries are deep into measuring emissions from cattle. Results will be about 5 years after sheep.
• dairy emissions may be aided by feed additives currently under development (native NZ seaweed being a prime example).

Leading breeders are receiving a price premium for low emission rams due to buyer expectation of including this trait in their Farm GHG calculations for this tax. Some farm calculations will show a rebate. This is the carrot to at least getting to zero.
NZ's largest beef exporter already markets zero carbon beef at a premium price from farmers who can quantify this under their Farm Assurance Scheme documentation. The tonnage is constrained by lack of supply.

 

[Dead Rabbits]

@Kiwi Pete What say you?

 

[Bury the Trash]

@Kiwi Pete What say you?

Surely he cant possibly disagree with i'm improving genetics to speed and consolodate 'meating' charateristics from forage surely, he might not like the clover bit tho
Im guessing He wont like the Clover Rec. i bet
Tbh I must admit that actually Im a bit on the fence about that and,although traditionally i love it and of course for N its great ,but it consumes p and i suppose (less importantly??? k) in vast quantities (for best production anyway)
but Higher protein i guess, which is naturally what were after to supplemenmt (grass ? ) instead of Soya ....

 

[Global ovine]

Tbh I must admit that actually Im a bit on the fence about that and,although traditionally i love it and of course for N its great ,but it consumes p and i suppose (less importantly??? k) in vast quantities (for best production anyway)
but Higher protein i guess, which is naturally what were after to supplemenmt (grass ? ) instead of Soya ....

Oh come on guys. If you stimulate plant growth with N onto any plant species they will take up more P and K as a response. Legumes just do better at a slightly higher soil P and pH level than grasses.

The protein content of clovers, although important, is superceded by higher digestibility. The return on any additional fertiliser nutrient input to gain animal growth/output remains high, especially on current world protein prices, even at today's fertiliser costs. The worldwide problem is too much unnecessary nutrients are applied due to insufficient soil testing and buying off snake-oil salesmen, coupled with poor grazing management of what has grown.

 

[delilah]

it would be faster progress by increasing lamb growth by 10% as the longer an animal lives, the more methane it emits.

Problem ?
We have a selection of breeds, which reach slaughter weight from 5 - 24 months. The impact on climate change is the same across the breeds. The square route of sweet fa.

All this is about - all it is about - is getting the primary producer to provide greenwash for the rest of the food chain. Sounds like farmings leaders in NZ are as complicit in this as they are in the UK. I guess your unions are controlled by the cartel too ?

 

[Dead Rabbits]

Surely he cant possibly disagree with i'm improving genetics to speed and consolodate 'meating' charateristics from forage surely, he might not like the clover bit tho
Im guessing He wont like the Clover Rec. i bet
Tbh I must admit that actually Im a bit on the fence about that and,although traditionally i love it and of course for N its great ,but it consumes p and i suppose (less importantly??? k) in vast quantities (for best production anyway)
but Higher protein i guess, which is naturally what were after to supplemenmt (grass ? ) instead of Soya ....

I mean lt more about governmental enforcement of a tax based on a farcical system.

I’m not super well read on a lot of this ruminant emissions stuff currently but what I have gathered is this. Growing them bigger faster fatter with some fairy dust sprinkled on top will reduce emissions and save the planet. And if you are a good lad and jump through the continuously moving hoops you get to carry on being a farmer.

This is all being sold to is as “demanded by the consumer”. Total lie. It’s about picking a relatively soft target of an industry an scapegoating them.

 

[Dead Rabbits]

Problem ?
We have a selection of breeds, which reach slaughter weight from 5 - 24 months. The impact on climate change is the same across the breeds. The square route of sweet fa.

All this is about - all it is about - is getting the primary producer to provide greenwash for the rest of the food chain. Sounds like farmings leaders in NZ are as complicit in this as they are in the UK. I guess your unions are controlled by the cartel too ?

Said it better than me. Dairy NZ has failed everyone and if there is another referendum they won’t squeak by again. Just an expensive door mat.

 

[Global ovine]

@delilah and @Dead Rabbits I think you are blaming the wrong people. As I wrote in post #48 above; countries signed up to lower their GHG emissions 30 years ago. Some countries can do that by switching from coal to gas, or from cars to trains and cycles. But countries such as NZ (and Ireland) have GHG profiles where half comes from farming. Such nations have no choice under the international agreement to do something, but not at the reduction of food production.

I repeat; warming is a global issue, not a national issue, but the agreement puts the onus on each country to make its agreed reductions over specified time periods, irrespective of where and how their emissions are created.

I don't like the situation NZ has found itself, but at least NZ farming leaders have had the opportunity of writing their own invoices for their emissions. Better than being beaten down and out with taxes at world carbon prices, that do not account for individual farm differences and the carbon they sequester. This plan does offer carrots, rather than a big stick.

 

[kiwi pom]

Problem ?
We have a selection of breeds, which reach slaughter weight from 5 - 24 months. The impact on climate change is the same across the breeds. The square route of sweet fa.

All this is about - all it is about - is getting the primary producer to provide greenwash for the rest of the food chain. Sounds like farmings leaders in NZ are as complicit in this as they are in the UK. I guess your unions are controlled by the cartel too ?

Rightly or wrongly NZ has said it will reduce its emissions, a lot of which come from ag, so that’s what we have to do. Perhaps better for farmers to come up with a way to do it? Countries like the UK and US have a large population to feed, NZ is an exporter and has to do what the customers want.
As I understand it other countries are wanting to do something similar but are reluctant to actually come up with any kind of plan. Perhaps NZ farmers can use that to their advantage and come up with something that benefits them that is copied by others?
As @Global ovine said, doing nothing isn’t an option much as we might like to.

 

[Henarar]

@delilah and @Dead Rabbits I think you are blaming the wrong people. As I wrote in post #48 above; countries signed up to lower their GHG emissions 30 years ago. Some countries can do that by switching from coal to gas, or from cars to trains and cycles. But countries such as NZ (and Ireland) have GHG profiles where half comes from farming. Such nations have no choice under the international agreement to do something, but not at the reduction of food production.

I repeat; warming is a global issue, not a national issue, but the agreement puts the onus on each country to make its agreed reductions over specified time periods, irrespective of where and how their emissions are created.

I don't like the situation NZ has found itself, but at least NZ farming leaders have had the opportunity of writing their own invoices for their emissions. Better than being beaten down and out with taxes at world carbon prices, that do not account for individual farm differences and the carbon they sequester. This plan does offer carrots, rather than a big stick.

The gasses ruminants give out do not cause global warming.
So excepting any of this and it don't matter if its self inflicted or government inflicted is just stupid, these things are always the thin end of the wedge.

 

[Hfd Cattle]

Thatcher ruined britain
She would never have got re elected in 83 if shehadnt caused the falklands war and won it

If Thatcher was in power now we wouldn't have all this woke crap !!