Zero drilling peas with JD750A.?

[Clive]

Question Clive.

Pedders No 1 mix has Radish, and Peas in It. and you are following it with Peas and OSR. Are you not concerned with rotation not just for this crop but for the gap you technically need to leave before going back to this field with a Brassica or Legume cash crop? This is my biggest worry with all these covers being grown. I understand people talk of improved biology helping in this regard but this will not be proven for at least a decade, but IMO is a worry until then?

Its my plan to mix either Rye or Oats with a bit of Phacelia/Sunflower/Buckwheat (we need minimum two species here to count as EFA area) before next years no till Peas!

I no longer use #1 mix - that was my first year of cover crop in 2012/13

however I'm not over concerned re rotation gap, if you listen to some CC advocates they suggest same family crop is a good idea to prime appropriate biology for the cash crop

Within reason i'm not actually sure it really matters what the cover contains anymore, what really matters is you keep something growing on land at all times. I used Vetch, pacelia, radish last year and im happy with it, this year I may just use a millet, linseed, pea, bean and lupin mix purely because I can do that from home saved left overs and not spend any cash !

 

[dontknowanything]

Question Clive.

Pedders No 1 mix has Radish, and Peas in It. and you are following it with Peas and OSR. Are you not concerned with rotation not just for this crop but for the gap you technically need to leave before going back to this field with a Brassica or Legume cash crop? This is my biggest worry with all these covers being grown. I understand people talk of improved biology helping in this regard but this will not be proven for at least a decade, but IMO is a worry until then?

Its my plan to mix either Rye or Oats with a bit of Phacelia/Sunflower/Buckwheat (we need minimum two species here to count as EFA area) before next years no till Peas!

I'm worried about that too. Dwayne Beck has a firm rule not to use anything in covers that is in your cash crop rotation. In a previous discussion on this subject @York said there was proof that it did not cause a problem, although I don't think we ever saw it.

 

[Clive]

I'm worried about that too. Dwayne Beck has a firm rule not to use anything in covers that is in your cash crop rotation. In a previous discussion on this subject @York said there was proof that it did not cause a problem, although I don't think we ever saw it.

Elaine Ingram would say same crops priming biology is a good thing ?

Im not sure it matters much either way, big benefit is from catching all that sunlight and water and keeping soil active, as long as something is growing thats all im really concerned about now, ideally it would be species I feel are bringing something to the party however

 

[dontknowanything]

Elaine Ingram would say same crops priming biology is a good thing ?

Im not sure it matters much either way, big benefit is from catching all that sunlight and water and keeping soil active, as long as something is growing thats all im really concerned about now, ideally it would be species I feel are bringing something to the party however

Remember what Dwayne said when I asked him about that "let me see her farm..."

 

[Clive]

Remember what Dwayne said when I asked him about that "let me see her farm..."

true ! both theories hold logic however and she is farming at scale (through others admittedly though)

 

[dontknowanything]

true ! both theories hold logic however and she is farming at scale (through others admittedly though)

Don't get me wrong - as you know I'm working under the assumption that the same species in a cover won't be a problem. But it is a worry.

 

[Clive]

Don't get me wrong - as you know I'm working under the assumption that the same species in a cover won't be a problem. But it is a worry.

i would like to understand why wheat does so well after linseed ? very little biomass, nothing impressive re the roots etc but following wheat is always spectacular

certainly a must have in a cover crop for me now

 

[York]

I'm worried about that too. Dwayne Beck has a firm rule not to use anything in covers that is in your cash crop rotation. In a previous discussion on this subject @York said there was proof that it did not cause a problem, although I don't think we ever saw it.

what I understand the effect is comparable with vacination or Bio Dynamiocs.
Atleast over here we see no problem but a good response on the following crops. There might even be a scientific explaination to it, at least hopefully it will be found.
Dwayne has a lot of experince under his belly, no doubt about it. I'm happy to have spend the time with him in the car last autumn. As I view it, even against my self is: "all knowledge is to be fragmentary"
That is what I like about Neal Kinsey is that he doesn't fight against others but just says: Look how was the order it all was comming, be it evolution or creation?
1: minerals
2. life
As Prof. W. Bergmann always said: "Without Minerals there is no life". this is rely a "killing" argument, stopping all further discussion, which I herewith don't want.
York-Th.

 

[dug]

clean it out - not hard to separate rape from peas, careful variety choice gets ripening within a week then some chemical help to finish things off

cover crop ahead of that crop was Pedder #1 mix IIRC

So does the osr help prop the peas up?
Secondly, the osr that is blown out of the combine onto the ground, what do you do about it since I imagine it is very thick ?

 

[Clive]

So does the osr help prop the peas up?
Secondly, the osr that is blown out of the combine onto the ground, what do you do about it since I imagine it is very thick ?

yes OSR hold peas up, peas feed OSR N

no OSR blown out of combine, we want it in the tank with the peas and then separate at store

http://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/pea-sosr-companion-crop.3922/ might be interesting even though that particular crop was mintilled rather than zero-tilled

 

[JNG]

I'm worried about that too. Dwayne Beck has a firm rule not to use anything in covers that is in your cash crop rotation. In a previous discussion on this subject @York said there was proof that it did not cause a problem, although I don't think we ever saw it.

Yea I was at his talk also and and asked him this quietly afterwards in a one and one discussion, again like you said advice was not if crop is also a cash crop in the rotation. I asked him specifically how about a legume (vetch was example I used) in CC before spring planted Pea or bean crop would it encourage some beneficial bacteria etc, he said it may and a small amount should not harm it but the impression I got from his advice was why risk it?

I'm moving to no till now from strip tilling. To make this work as you all know rotation is vitally important, but if we put ourselves in situations were we cannot grow crops, eg OSR because of club root, oats because of Mosiac Virus etc etc we will be making life hard for ourselves, we will need to keep as many cash cropping options open to us as possible.

Unfortunately other species eg, Phacelia, buckwheat, Niger, etc, are all more expensive. The brassica elements of CC's are the cheap bits!

 

[SilliamWhale]

Yea I was at his talk also and and asked him this quietly afterwards in a one and one discussion, again like you said advice was not if crop is also a cash crop in the rotation. I asked him specifically how about a legume (vetch was example I used) in CC before spring planted Pea or bean crop would it encourage some beneficial bacteria etc, he said it may and a small amount should not harm it but the impression I got from his advice was why risk it?

I'm moving to no till now from strip tilling. To make this work as you all know rotation is vitally important, but if we put ourselves in situations were we cannot grow crops, eg OSR because of club root, oats because of Mosiac Virus etc etc we will be making life hard for ourselves, we will need to keep as many cash cropping options open to us as possible.

Unfortunately other species eg, Phacelia, buckwheat, Niger, etc, are all more expensive. The brassica elements of CC's are the cheap bits!

But if for example you have OSR or a legume in a one in 6 year rotation (between 2 years of cereals each) then personally I think a 6 month cover crop of that same species is probably going to be ok. Combinable legumes are most likely to be 6 month crops anyway. So yes between say spring barley and spring beans you probably wouldn't add a legume for the cover crop but I don't see a brassica in the mix as much harm.

 

[martian]

We've just (4 weeks ago) put 100+ acres of beans in behind a Pedders No. 1 CC. I'm hoping that the vetch/pea component will have helped build up Rhizobium numbers in the soil to inoculate the beans, thus improving their nitrogen fixing capabilities. To get a bit scientific, we've added some inoculant to some of the beans and some of the ground had no peas/vetch in the cover (or anything else bar oats, courtesy of some slugs in the stubble last harvest-time), so we should be able to see any difference. Having said that, the inoculant wasn't the easiest thing to evenly distribute over the beans which were in tonne bags already, so our experiment might not be up to, for instance, Feldspar's exacting scientific standards.

Sorry, gone OT there. We've just (last week) drilled 200 acres of peas into failed OSR with a JD750a (nearly back on topic) but it wasn't thick cover (we'd slotted some spring barley in as cover when we wrote off rape in October). Not keen on too much rotting cover, because although the peas could cope, the SOSR pea-sticks got simoned off last year, so I'm hoping that the relatively low level over-winter cover won't damage the SOSR this year. Now we actually need rain...the peas are in moisture but the rape is in dust!

 

[Jim Bullock]

There was a time when I was concerned about cover crop mixtures/following cash crops but I have come to the conclusion that anything that retains soil nutrients and improves (or maintains ) the soil structure is worth growing. As in many cases the cover crop never reaches maturity and is grown "out of season" I am not so sure we need to get too worked up about cover-crops and rotation..( I have just come in from drilling some spring beans into a Vetch and forage Rye cover crop..)

 

[dug]

yes OSR hold peas up, peas feed OSR N

no OSR blown out of combine, we want it in the tank with the peas and then separate at store

http://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/pea-sosr-companion-crop.3922/ might be interesting even though that particular crop was mintilled rather than zero-tilled

Ok thanks, never heard of that before.