Sacking people

Thick Farmer · Sep 11, 2013

Sleepy said:
Economies of scale 10/hour margin isn't much, but if you had 5 gangs you could clear 500/day

Also, I agree with you if you are seen to be simply a middle man adding a margin everyone will think you are just ripping them off. Impossible situation. Can't you charge per job / per metre etc instead of per hour? Not many people have ever got rich charging by the hour.

Tried it, but 5 gangs = 5 x the grief!

Charging by the metre is excellent when I do the job myself, but employed staff don't have the same incentive to get the job finished as due to employment law I couldn't pay them by the metre.

I use subcontractors now and the do work on a payment per metre basis, so now I have a known margin rather than just hoping that the staff have a good day!

Costs are known and everyone is happy (apart from all the guys I sacked!)

sleepy · Sep 11, 2013

Thick Farmer said:
Tried it, but 5 gangs = 5 x the grief!

Charging by the metre is excellent when I do the job myself, but employed staff don't have the same incentive to get the job finished as due to employment law I couldn't pay them by the metre.

I use subcontractors now and the do work on a payment per metre basis, so now I have a known margin rather than just hoping that the staff have a good day!

Costs are known and everyone is happy (apart from all the guys I sacked!)

Start a national franchise for all the wannabe fencers who are great at putting up fencers but clueless about running a business

Hilly · Sep 11, 2013

MF7618 said:
F@#k me if we end up more like America I rather live in Iraq. One nation I have a dislike for Americans, tell me anything good thats come from there.

Our freedom.

Hilly · Sep 11, 2013

Thick Farmer said:
Tried it, but 5 gangs = 5 x the grief!

Charging by the metre is excellent when I do the job myself, but employed staff don't have the same incentive to get the job finished as due to employment law I couldn't pay them by the metre.

I use subcontractors now and the do work on a payment per metre basis, so now I have a known margin rather than just hoping that the staff have a good day!

Costs are known and everyone is happy (apart from all the guys I sacked!)

Your the man !!! I like your way of thinking.

sleepy · Sep 11, 2013

Muirman said:
Your the man !!! I like your way of thinking.

The only problem is the guys who you are subbing the work out to will be offering to do your customers work themselves without your margin next time,

Hilly · Sep 11, 2013

Sleepy said:
The only problem is the guys who you are subbing the work out to will be offering to do your customers work themselves without your margin next time,

I was just going to say if I was subby I would steal your work lol , life is frought with problems .

spikeislander · Sep 11, 2013

ok starting from scratch with very little knowledge of employment, (and I wont take this as gospel just food for thought).
If I wanted to employ someone what holiday etc is law or expected?
What money would a reliable chap be as in I can send him off on good kit to plough etc with scope to spray if not already trained?
And can you draw up a contract between both parties that maybe differs from the norm, without breaking the law.
In my eyes I would pay well expect good hours when busy, be reliable, courteous to customers, not shy away from s**t jobs.
But I would be happy to let them leave off early on wet days, fridays when not busy, work some weekends getting stuff ready, or spraying/ spreading, and encourage to take more holidays during quiet times.
Am I looking for somebody who doesnt exist, I dont think so?

Hilly · Sep 11, 2013

spikeislander said:
ok starting from scratch with very little knowledge of employment, (and I wont take this as gospel just food for thought).
If I wanted to employ someone what holiday etc is law or expected?
What money would a reliable chap be as in I can send him off on good kit to plough etc with scope to spray if not already trained?
And can you draw up a contract between both parties that maybe differs from the norm, without breaking the law.
In my eyes I would pay well expect good hours when busy, be reliable, courteous to customers, not shy away from s**t jobs.
But I would be happy to let them leave off early on wet days, fridays when not busy, work some weekends getting stuff ready, or spraying/ spreading, and encourage to take more holidays during quiet times.
Am I looking for somebody who doesnt exist, I dont think so?

No, and about 28k a year would get you that man.

ianw · Sep 11, 2013

spikeislander said:
ok starting from scratch with very little knowledge of employment, (and I wont take this as gospel just food for thought).
If I wanted to employ someone what holiday etc is law or expected?
What money would a reliable chap be as in I can send him off on good kit to plough etc with scope to spray if not already trained?
And can you draw up a contract between both parties that maybe differs from the norm, without breaking the law.
In my eyes I would pay well expect good hours when busy, be reliable, courteous to customers, not shy away from s**t jobs.
But I would be happy to let them leave off early on wet days, fridays when not busy, work some weekends getting stuff ready, or spraying/ spreading, and encourage to take more holidays during quiet times.
Am I looking for somebody who doesnt exist, I dont think so?

Have a read if the link works www.gov.uk/employing-farm-workers I think you should find someone easily enough its just sorting the wheat from the chaff for every bad one there are more good ones,just make sure you double check references etc and verify the person you speak to is actually a previous employer etc and good luck as good staff do make a difference

multi power · Sep 11, 2013

Muirman said:
No, and about 28k a year would get you that man.

would they not need a bit more? plus a house

d williams · Sep 11, 2013

Robigus said:
The only other cost is the 13.8% employer's national insurance, all the other things you mention are included in basic terms of employment.

If people don't want to employ workers that is fine, but moaning about basic terms of employment is ridiculous. It's like buying a tractor and then complaining that you have to pay for the diesel.

There's a few other costs that need to be added to rate
Insurance
Sick pay
Maternity
Work vehicles
Phones
Tools
Non productive days
Travelling
Admin
Running a few men a couple of years ago there rate was £ 9 hr try were costing us on 40 hr week alone £15.75 per hour

multi power · Sep 11, 2013

d williams said:
There's a few other costs that need to be added to rate
Insurance
Sick pay
Maternity
Work vehicles
Phones
Tools
Non productive days
Travelling
Admin
Running a few men a couple of years ago there rate was £ 9 hr try were costing us on 40 hr week alone £15.75 per hour

also overtime
recrutment
also risk/liability for the employee

Thick Farmer · Sep 11, 2013

Sleepy said:
The only problem is the guys who you are subbing the work out to will be offering to do your customers work themselves without your margin next time,

Thought of that. I pay the subbies straight away, usually have to wait a bit for my money, but thats my risk...

Chae1 · Sep 12, 2013

Just employ self employed. That's what we do, works fine.

Hilly · Sep 12, 2013

I hope you all have employee liability insurance cover ! you should have it even if you don't employ funnily enough.

sleepy · Sep 12, 2013

Chae1 said:
Just employ self employed. That's what we do, works fine.

untill someone dobs you in or you fall out with an ex employee and you get hit with a 6 figure NI bill for the past 10 years

llamedos · Sep 12, 2013

Muirman said:
I hope you all have employee liability insurance cover ! you should have it even if you don't employ funnily enough.

and so do they or yours is worth jack s

Hilly · Sep 12, 2013

Sleepy said:
untill someone dobs you in or you fall out with an ex employee and you get hit with a 6 figure NI bill for the past 10 years

don't keep them full time switch them about a bit.

Hilly · Sep 12, 2013

llamedos said:
and so do they or yours is worth jack s

What do you mean ?

sleepy · Sep 12, 2013

Muirman said:
don't keep them full time switch them about a bit.

If you were investigated you would struggle to prove they were not employees unless they were providing their own tools / tractor etc. Farm near (ish) he thought they were 'alright jack' but an ex self employed man who worked for them 2 days a week took them to a tribunal when they told him he was no longer needed, court decided that he should have been employed as should have all their other self employed workers. Big bill!!

Sacking people

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Up to 25%

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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