How the negotiations are being managed

bobk said:

Lets hope we don't follow the coal industry , discarded and now we have an energy crisis .

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Mrs May is more interventionist than DC, just look at some of the proposals put forward to developers if they don't build houses on the land they have within a set time, they will be stopped, a Laissez-faire policy on everything is over

RobFZS said:

Depends what they are, there is global standards for food and good etc

But pointless sh!t like some of the stuff like eu wide driving licences, CPC stuff for trucks, smart motorways directives. car insurance regs anything that brings the eu state together is what will get scrapped, if it's got nothing to do with trade, it's got to go

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A land of milk and honey on the horizon then

I might be green with envy over here ...

Except the sun actually shines in the summer

bobk said:

Wouldn't hold your breath .

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i wont need to, once we leave, that sort of shite will be within the Eu, it won't have a reason to be enacted here

czechmate said:

A land of milk and honey on the horizon then

I might be green with envy over here ...

Except the sun actually shines in the summer

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Thought you liked that deeper integration thing

RobFZS said:

Thought you liked that deeper integration thing

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Yes, most integrating is done outside in the summer

RobFZS said:

Where did i say we can do a deal in 2 years then?! @DrDunc

Walking hypocrite this guy is.

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Again, not responding to arguments presented, and attacking the poster.

Ignore

DrDunc said:

Again, not responding to arguments presented, and attacking the poster.

Ignore

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exactly, make things up and then don't want to be held accountable for them, even when i do respond, you ignore it and make your own argument up and calling me blinkered in your first reply to me for example, worlds biggest hypocrite, your constant grand standing is hilarious to say how vicious with your underhand attacks when anyone dare question and then completely bowl you over.

You tried all this rubbish a few weeks back and got called out for it by numerous posters, and then eventually backed down when you tried to make out we were not told we would leave the Sm.

Once again, you've been made a fool of yourself @DrDunc

Now stop wasting my time.

DrDunc said:

Again, not responding to arguments presented, and attacking the poster.

Ignore

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Here you are, doing the attacking of a poster, care to explain why it's fine for you to do it?

Grown adults usually ignore it, you on the other hand, use it as an excuse not to have to debate. @DrDunc

RobFZS said:

You don't seem to understand brexit at all

When we do the deal, untill that deal is done, we will be under EU rules and free tarrifs, so how, after the deal is done, can they then go back and sell agri off for more concessions on Finance ? @DrDunc this is what you originally said, own it and deal is a deal, whats the point in doing one if you're going to keep changing it?!

Lie number 2 spouted by you, link to where i said we can do a deal in 2 years? we will have a transition over a number of years to ensure a smooth exit and all ends are tied up

So you're saying 11 billion of exports will end? another lie.

Which government were we electing when we had a manifesto for fishermen keeping EU fishing boats out of British waters?!

As i said before, whats your opinion on the CETA deal on beef?! you're already being sold down the river.

i'll await your none answers and then eventual disappearance, as per because you have no real answer's, just hyperbole.

The biggest amusement is you've once again, fallen for a fabricated 'leaked' document by people who want to sabotage brexit, So you've wasted your time getting upset over it,also amusing you still have no worked out what access to the single market means, you've confusing membership and access, even North Korea has Access, such a school boy error, but i will let you off this final time.

Have you been living under a rock for the last 6 moths? there is going to be a transitional arrangement to avoid the cliff edge,

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Rob, the actual position regarding beef in the CETA agreement is one where the Eurocrats so despised by many did an EXCELLENT job for Europe. Canada gain an export quota to EU for (I'm rounding for ease) 60k tons mainly fresh beef. The quota is built up over a few years and the tariffs come down over a few years.
What about EU exports to Canada? Immediate tariff and quota free acces to the Canadian market!!! In other words our industry just has to cut the deals! Tariff and technical barriers are gone from day one.

I have said over and again on a few threads here that CETA is a good deal for EU beef exports.
True to form Brexit minded individuals just do not accept facts that are not suited to their view.

On a separate matter I read a lot recently that TM intendeds to use British military power as a bargaining chip and well she might if Britain's true military power is as she would like to believe or have Merkel believe.

I'm reading more and more these days that the true state of the military is shocking. Ex generals and admirals not shy about highlighting the issues.

I dunno Rob. I wish Britain a good outcome in all of this but nevertheless I truly fear there is a mass self delusion clouding the minds of far too many folks as to the true sway of Britain in today's world.
Britain's true net negotiating power as a single entity is a mere fraction of the bloated version which resides in the minds of many if not most of the toffs with their hands in the levers of power. BoJo .... I have an old Jack Russell here which I can send to bat for you guys. At least he can bark and chase his tail.

Ashtree said:

Rob, the actual position regarding beef in the CETA agreement is one where the Eurocrats so despised by many did an EXCELLENT job for Europe. Canada gain an export quota to EU for (I'm rounding for ease) 60k tons mainly fresh beef. The quota is built up over a few years and the tariffs come down over a few years.
What about EU exports to Canada? Immediate tariff and quota free acces to the Canadian market!!! In other words our industry just has to cut the deals! Tariff and technical barriers are gone from day one.

I have said over and again on a few threads here that CETA is a good deal for EU beef exports.
True to form Brexit minded individuals just do not accept facts that are not suited to their view.

On a separate matter I read a lot recently that TM intendeds to use British military power as a bargaining chip and well she might if Britain's true military power is as she would like to believe or have Merkel believe.

I'm reading more and more these days that the true state of the military is shocking. Ex generals and admirals not shy about highlighting the issues.

I dunno Rob. I wish Britain a good outcome in all of this but nevertheless I truly fear there is a mass self delusion clouding the minds of far too many folks as to the true sway of Britain in today's world.
Britain's true net negotiating power as a single entity is a mere fraction of the bloated version which resides in the minds of many if not most of the toffs with their hands in the levers of power. BoJo .... I have an old Jack Russell here which I can send to bat for you guys. At least he can bark and chase his tail.

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Agriculture: Canada will eliminate duties for 90.9% of all its agricultural tariff lines upon entry into force of CETA. After 7 years, the tariffs for 91.7% of agricultural lines will be eliminated. The remainder are sensitive products, which will either be offered as a TRQ (dairy) or excluded altogether from liberalisation commitments (chicken and turkey meat, eggs and egg products). The Canadian offer on processed agricultural products (PAPs) - for example wines and spirits, soft drinks, confectionery, cereals-based products like pasta or biscuits, fruit and vegetable preparations - is of particular relevance because PAPs are among the main export interests of the EU and further market opening was one of the main EU negotiating objectives. With all but a very limited number of the Canadian tariff lines for PAPs now to be liberalised, the EU PAPs industry is expected to gain considerably from CETA. 1 See point (3) below. 2 See also point (12) below. CETA – Summary of the final negotiating results February 2016 Page 4 of 19 Within the PAPs category, wines and spirits deserve a special mention, because these products are the major export item of the EU agricultural and food industry to Canada. Tariff elimination is complemented by the removal of other trade barriers, including several 'behind the border' barriers that have prevented the EU from substantially improving its performance in the Canadian market. Canada and the EU agreed on rules that will significantly improve the competitive situation of European products in Canada 3 . Furthermore, the existing EU-Canada Wines and Spirits Agreement has been incorporated into CETA. This allows us to better address concerns that may arise as regards the ‘behind-the-border treatment’ of European wines and spirits. The combined effect of these measures, which address all key requests of Member States and the EU industry, should further increase the EU share of the Canadian wine and spirit market. Overall, the trade agreement should allow the EU to further increase its share of the Canadian market for agricultural products by eliminating duties that for the products mentioned above are mostly between 10 % and 25% of the product value (ad valorem). The EU, for its part, will eliminate 92.2% of its agricultural tariffs at entry into force. After 7 years, 93.8% of the agricultural tariffs will be eliminated.

http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2014/december/tradoc_152982.pdf

The nitty gritty appears to show both will eliminate some tariffs upon entry, but not all until after 7 years, with abit of leeway inbetween, but it's hardly one sided as you make out, even then on some of the products that get phased in after 5 years, it's hardly here nor there, it will still affect you, for example, that Hilton beef quota of 11500k tonnes is coming in straight away ''The full volume of duty free imports allowed under the Hilton beef quota, as well as for bison and common wheat will be available as of entry into force of CETA.''

http://beefandlamb.ahdb.org.uk/market-intelligence-news/eu-canada-sign-free-trade-deal/

The levy board doesn't sound too positive on it either.

I'm not like the head bangers who will say the Eu will do as we say, but there is obviously mutual recognition of the situation, to be firm, but fair with the situation we want to be in

RobFZS said:

exactly, make things up and then don't want to be held accountable for them, even when i do respond, you ignore it and make your own argument up and calling me blinkered in your first reply to me for example, worlds biggest hypocrite, your constant grand standing is hilarious to say how vicious with your underhand attacks when anyone dare question and then completely bowl you over.

You tried all this rubbish a few weeks back and got called out for it by numerous posters, and then eventually backed down when you tried to make out we were not told we would leave the Sm.

Once again, you've been made a fool of yourself @DrDunc

Now stop wasting my time.

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The vehemence of your vitriol is astonishing.

DrDunc said:

The vehemence of your vitriol is astonishing.

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Good, ashtree can handle it and he makes a good debater, you cannot.

How are the negotiations being managed is the title of this thread.

From the leaked report prioritising industry negotiation importance, agriculture is not a priority discussion.

From the governments own white paper, the very pro Brexit fishing industry won't be given the promised exclusive use of British territorial waters.

The red tape bonfire hoped for by some is rapidly becoming too damp to light with the realisation that if you want to sell your produce, it must still meet the required standards (which will still need inspected).

The Canadian free trade deal took over seven years of negotiation from a concept first proposed nearly 22 years ago by the then Canadian PM Jean Chrétien.

That deal is nowhere near as complex as the negotiations for the extraction of Britain from the eu. After triggering article 50, Westminster has just two years to negotiate a deal.

Theresa May has said there will be no period of transition after that, there will be no access to the single market. Nearly 20% of beef and 40% of lamb produced in this country is exported to the EU. Where will that be sold to? If a market is found, what will be the farmgate price?

While it is easy to pile prolific vitriolic abusive dissent upon anyone asking awkward questions or providing information that tarnishes the rose tinted glow of satisfaction with the referendum result, it does not answer any questions about the future of our industry.

Anyone who claims to know the answers is either an inside member of the Westminster negotiating team, or they're making it up.

I know that many fishermen are feeling nauseous with the realisation that their industry is not likely to get the sovereignty they expected with Brexit. I hope that the same does not occur for the agricultural industry.




How are the negotiations being managed?

Without any way to provide any confidence or even certainty of a continued future for businesses that export.

DrDunc said:

How are the negotiations being managed is the title of this thread.

From the leaked report prioritising industry negotiation importance, agriculture is not a priority discussion.

From the governments own white paper, the very pro Brexit fishing industry won't be given the promised exclusive use of British territorial waters.

The red tape bonfire hoped for by some is rapidly becoming too damp to light with the realisation that if you want to sell your produce, it must still meet the required standards (which will still need inspected).

The Canadian free trade deal took over seven years of negotiation from a concept first proposed nearly 22 years ago by the then Canadian PM Jean Chrétien.

That deal is nowhere near as complex as the negotiations for the extraction of Britain from the eu. After triggering article 50, Westminster has just two years to negotiate a deal.

Theresa May has said there will be no period of transition after that, there will be no access to the single market. Nearly 20% of beef and 40% of lamb produced in this country is exported to the EU. Where will that be sold to? If a market is found, what will be the farmgate price?

While it is easy to pile prolific vitriolic abusive dissent upon anyone asking awkward questions or providing information that tarnishes the rose tinted glow of satisfaction with the referendum result, it does not answer any questions about the future of our industry.

Anyone who claims to know the answers is either an inside member of the Westminster negotiating team, or they're making it up.

I know that many fishermen are feeling nauseous with the realisation that their industry is not likely to get the sovereignty they expected with Brexit. I hope that the same does not occur for the agricultural industry.




How are the negotiations being managed?

Without any way to provide any confidence or even certainty of a continued future for businesses that export.

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God some of you are missable buggars on here,I fall to see why a trade deal will take that long
Does Europe want to trade things with us. -yes
Do we want to trade things with Europe. - yes
Does Europe meet our standards- yes
Do we meet their standards- yes
Job done,but if they want to play silly buggars that's up to them,so chin up it want be that bad it's not as if we haven't been trading like that for years

DrDunc said:

How are the negotiations being managed is the title of this thread.

From the leaked report prioritising industry negotiation importance, agriculture is not a priority discussion.

From the governments own white paper, the very pro Brexit fishing industry won't be given the promised exclusive use of British territorial waters.

The red tape bonfire hoped for by some is rapidly becoming too damp to light with the realisation that if you want to sell your produce, it must still meet the required standards (which will still need inspected).

The Canadian free trade deal took over seven years of negotiation from a concept first proposed nearly 22 years ago by the then Canadian PM Jean Chrétien.

That deal is nowhere near as complex as the negotiations for the extraction of Britain from the eu. After triggering article 50, Westminster has just two years to negotiate a deal.

Theresa May has said there will be no period of transition after that, there will be no access to the single market. Nearly 20% of beef and 40% of lamb produced in this country is exported to the EU. Where will that be sold to? If a market is found, what will be the farmgate price?

While it is easy to pile prolific vitriolic abusive dissent upon anyone asking awkward questions or providing information that tarnishes the rose tinted glow of satisfaction with the referendum result, it does not answer any questions about the future of our industry.

Anyone who claims to know the answers is either an inside member of the Westminster negotiating team, or they're making it up.

I know that many fishermen are feeling nauseous with the realisation that their industry is not likely to get the sovereignty they expected with Brexit. I hope that the same does not occur for the agricultural industry.




How are the negotiations being managed?

Without any way to provide any confidence or even certainty of a continued future for businesses that export.

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I don't get why you make things up, you're only kidding yourself.

This for example ''
That deal is nowhere near as complex as the negotiations for the extraction of Britain from the eu. After triggering article 50, Westminster has just two years to negotiate a deal.

Theresa May has said there will be no period of transition after that, there will be no access to the single market''

let's see a link to where she says this

Also, North Korea has access to the single market, education time >> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36270203

Who has access to the single market?
Any countries that are not subject to trade sanctions can trade with members of the single market, as Boris Johnson said.

But there is a big difference between being able to trade with the single market and being a member of it. For instance, the United States sells into the single market but there are no common safety standards for goods such as fridges or cars and tariffs and quotas may be imposed on its products.

We unlike America, and Canada have exact the same regulatory bodies as the EU, so other than Tarrifs add ones, How exactly is it more of a different deal?! do we , or do we not have the same regualtions, now , as the EU? @DrDunc

The reason the Canadian deal took soo long is because of the regulation differences, so how will we have these barriers to overcome, when we already have the same regulatory standards.

So why exactly, as the BBC says, won't we have Access to the single market? North korea has access, yet we won't ?!

https://www.ft.com/content/7a432a59-f0b5-3744-bfdd-5d78c7698fa7

Theresa May pushes for EU Brexit transition deal

@DrDunc did you miss this?

turbo said:

God some of you are missable buggars on here,I fall to see why a trade deal will take that long
Does Europe want to trade things with us. -yes
Do we want to trade things with Europe. - yes
Does Europe meet our standards- yes
Do we meet their standards- yes
Job done,but if they want to play silly buggars that's up to them,so chin up it want be that bad it's not as if we haven't been trading like that for years

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pretty much simple as that, it is nothing like the Canadian deal, we have all the regulatory standards as the eu do now, Canada did not and thus it took years to go through it all verifying everything.

All our issues of 40 years in the eu can be solved with a transitional deal, while all ends are tied up, as Mrs May above talks about

Now that's settled, how do you suppose we get the best deal for agriculture, while remaining outside the Single market @DrDunc

There is no way we can remain inside the single market as we cannot control immigration as the people wanted, you seem to be the man with all the answers, let's hear them.

turbo said:

God some of you are missable buggars on here,I fall to see why a trade deal will take that long
Does Europe want to trade things with us. -yes
Do we want to trade things with Europe. - yes
Does Europe meet our standards- yes
Do we meet their standards- yes
Job done,but if they want to play silly buggars that's up to them,so chin up it want be that bad it's not as if we haven't been trading like that for years

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Simple answer is as follows. Pay close attention this time please as I swear I will never again explain this in here. I and others have done so fifteen zillion times already, but still the penny hasn't dropped.
The EU could do a trade deal in no time at all. EXCEPT that doing so (in fact doing any trade deal) would immediately cause the collapse of the EU as other would run for the door.
So best possible outcome will a long slow agonising deal of no significant benefit to either side.
So best send your best man to India for example to get a good trump trade deal. The fing is Mr. India will INSIST on a significant element of freedom of movement of people.
Back to square one. At least you will continue to have the best vendaloos in Europe