How the negotiations are being managed

[wanton dwarf]

While I can follow and to an extent concur with some of your sentiments I am not sure Brexit and Britain leaving the EU will deliver what you want. But time will tell and we shall know if maybe five or so years.

I think there is a good chance it will not because all the established political parties have an agenda.

However I think a lot of older people have seen the excesses of all the established parties and know pretty much what they don't want.

Whether we will get a chance to vote for it in a general election ? I hope so.

 

[Muck Spreader]

It's funny how it is now conveniently forgotten that most of the UK's problems with eastern European migrants were actually brought about by our own eurosceptics demanding that these countries were brought into the EU early in the first place. They naively thought that these counties would normally side with the UK on most arguments and help shift the balance of power away from the Franco German alliance. That worked well.

 

[RobFZS]

It's funny how it is now conveniently forgotten that most of the UK's problems with eastern European migrants were actually brought about by our own eurosceptics demanding that these countries were brought into the EU early in the first place. They naively thought that these counties would normally side with the UK on most arguments and help shift the balance of power away from the Franco German alliance. That worked well.

more Blairs fault for having no transitional arrangements so they all flooded in, and the Euro killing jobs in southern/ eastern Europe so the people have to go elsewhere to earn a living

But, the never ending beating drum of ever closer union is always the thing most people want to get away from.

 

[wanton dwarf]

It's funny how it is now conveniently forgotten that most of the UK's problems with eastern European migrants were actually brought about by our own eurosceptics demanding that these countries were brought into the EU early in the first place. They naively thought that these counties would normally side with the UK on most arguments and help shift the balance of power away from the Franco German alliance. That worked well.

I think the Labour government just wanted to appease some rich people in London which were annoyed at having to pay plumbers £50K a year.

The EU is run for Germany at the expense of everyone else. EU unemployment shows exactly what is going on and who is losing out.

Freedom of movement is only required because the strength of the North - Germany and the lack of individual countries currencies means the only substantive way of curing a lack of jobs is for people to move elsewhere.

Humans like communities and a lack of community gives rise to other problems such as a lack of care for the old, infirm and disadvantaged. Those that do move to a new country, are they likely to support that country or fittingly want to take as much "home" as possible.

Bluntly put the current economic models are not fit for humans.

 

[Hindsight]

I think there is a good chance it will not because all the established political parties have an agenda.

However I think a lot of older people have seen the excesses of all the established parties and know pretty much what they don't want.

Whether we will get a chance to vote for it in a general election ? I hope so.

Hi, you say vote for 'it' in a general election - what do you mean by 'it' ? And what are the excesses - this is a genuine question and not meant to rile - I am always interested in other points of view. The older people have seen a changing society and workplace for sure - what do they not want though?

 

[Muck Spreader]

[QUOTE="wanton dwarf, post: 3483364, member: 5903"

The EU is run for Germany at the expense of everyone else. EU unemployment shows exactly what is going on and who is losing out.

/QUOTE]
But if you follow that conclusion you would have to say that the EU is actually run more for the benefit of the UK economy as we contribute less but have a similar unemployment rate. German work ethic and the weakness of the euro are their main plus points IMO.

 

[Ashtree]

Germany will catch a bit of a cold. Nothing more. Collapse of EU would be a far far bigger economic and security concern for them. No easy deal for or with UK. No short term thinking. Best take a bit of short term pain for the long term gain.

A good article here I could have written myself. Merkel the long term thinker !

Merkel Doesn’t Look Like She’s About to Help May
http://bloom.bg/2lEy045

 

[baabaa]

A good article here I could have written myself. Merkel the long term thinker !

Merkel Doesn’t Look Like She’s About to Help May
http://bloom.bg/2lEy045

merkel yesterdays woman,my betting is on shultz after having jumped the eu ship.a german socialist trump in coalition with the greens working with an increasingly right wing rest of europe, what fun!

 

[Henarar]

more Blairs fault for having no transitional arrangements so they all flooded in, and the Euro killing jobs in southern/ eastern Europe so the people have to go elsewhere to earn a living

But, the never ending beating drum of ever closer union is always the thing most people want to get away from.

Yep quite right he started brexit and camoron finished it, both pro EU
funny in it

 

[RobFZS]

A good article here I could have written myself. Merkel the long term thinker !

Merkel Doesn’t Look Like She’s About to Help May
http://bloom.bg/2lEy045

If so, why is she back peddling with the migrants?

 

[le bon paysan]

Rob, the actual position regarding beef in the CETA agreement is one where the Eurocrats so despised by many did an EXCELLENT job for Europe. Canada gain an export quota to EU for (I'm rounding for ease) 60k tons mainly fresh beef. The quota is built up over a few years and the tariffs come down over a few years.
What about EU exports to Canada? Immediate tariff and quota free acces to the Canadian market!!! In other words our industry just has to cut the deals! Tariff and technical barriers are gone from day one.

I have said over and again on a few threads here that CETA is a good deal for EU beef exports.
True to form Brexit minded individuals just do not accept facts that are not suited to their view.

On a separate matter I read a lot recently that TM intendeds to use British military power as a bargaining chip and well she might if Britain's true military power is as she would like to believe or have Merkel believe.

I'm reading more and more these days that the true state of the military is shocking. Ex generals and admirals not shy about highlighting the issues.

I dunno Rob. I wish Britain a good outcome in all of this but nevertheless I truly fear there is a mass self delusion clouding the minds of far too many folks as to the true sway of Britain in today's world.
Britain's true net negotiating power as a single entity is a mere fraction of the bloated version which resides in the minds of many if not most of the toffs with their hands in the levers of power. BoJo .... I have an old Jack Russell here which I can send to bat for you guys. At least he can bark and chase his tail.

It's a dreadful deal for EU Beef Farmers.
It is an excellent deal for Dairy Farmers. Don't confuse the 2.

 

[czechmate]

It's a dreadful deal for EU Beef Farmers.
It is an excellent deal for Dairy Farmers. Don't confuse the 2.

You looking out for black and white génisses now,

 

[DrDunc]

Sir Ivan Rodgers was the permanent representative of the UK to the European Union until his resignation at the start of the year.

His resignation letter was very scathing of the muddled thinking and lack of negotiating experience within the Westminster government.

He has this to say about free trade:

Contrary to the beliefs of some, free trade does not just happen when it is not thwarted by authorities: increasing market access to other markets and consumer choice in our own, depends on the deals, multilateral, plurilateral and bilateral that we strike, and the terms that we agree.

I would suggest that he is somewhat more experienced and better placed to comment upon how the Brexit negotiations are being managed than any of the bellicose keyboard warriors on here.

 

[Henarar]

would suggest that he is somewhat more experienced and better placed to comment upon how the Brexit negotiations are being managed than any of the bellicose keyboard warriors on here.

best you shut up about it then

 

[JP1]

 

[Danllan]

Sir Ivan Rodgers was the permanent representative of the UK to the European Union until his resignation at the start of the year... I would suggest that he is somewhat more experienced and better placed to comment upon how the Brexit negotiations are being managed than any of the bellicose keyboard warriors on here.

He also went 'native', failed utterly as Cameron's 'Chief Negotiator' and has been proved entirely wrong in re' predictions for the post referendum UK economy. And, like loads of others who have had to leave office under a cloud - Blair, Mandelson and co. - he is now doing the circuits telling us that he never got it wrong, it's us not understanding the situation.

View attachment 471592

Classic, a protest poster brought to us all by a 'Flat-Earth' or, more accurately, undemocratic shut-the-stable-door society of EU supporters. Surely you can do better than that, unless there really is nothing left else except protest 'workshops'? How about a march, or a really cutting flyer campaign or a sit-down protest? All about as relevant and effective as student politics can be.

The great irony of this 'poster' is that the hypocritical prigs who created it steer clear of the fact that the reason we will be leaving the EU is because the 'Brexiters' they so deride didn't fall for the Armageddon-predicting lies of project fear and the remain campaign; an inconvenient truth if ever there was one...

 

[JohnGalway]

The great irony of this 'poster' is that the hypocritical prigs who created it steer clear of the fact that the reason we will be leaving the EU is because the 'Brexiters' they so deride didn't fall for the Armageddon-predicting lies of project fear and the remain campaign; an inconvenient truth if ever there was one...

Ah here. In political terms of something of this scale absolutely nothing has happened. Brexit is something that will take probably a decade for people to say how it has had an effect, positive or negative, and on whom. Ye haven't even triggered Article 50 yet, nevermind left the EU. Even after a decade, it will be speculation as to whether things would have been better or worse at that time point if your aunt hadn't been your uncle.

 

[Muck Spreader]

He also went 'native', failed utterly as Cameron's 'Chief Negotiator' and has been proved entirely wrong in re' predictions for the post referendum UK economy. And, like loads of others who have had to leave office under a cloud - Blair, Mandelson and co. - he is now doing the circuits telling us that he never got it wrong, it's us not understanding the situation.



Classic, a protest poster brought to us all by a 'Flat-Earth' or, more accurately, undemocratic shut-the-stable-door society of EU supporters. Surely you can do better than that, unless there really is nothing left else except protest 'workshops'? How about a march, or a really cutting flyer campaign or a sit-down protest? All about as relevant and effective as student politics can be.

The great irony of this 'poster' is that the hypocritical prigs who created it steer clear of the fact that the reason we will be leaving the EU is because the 'Brexiters' they so deride didn't fall for the Armageddon-predicting lies of project fear and the remain campaign; an inconvenient truth if ever there was one...

Why should it be undemocratic to think leaving the EU is an unwise choice? I happen to think it is a bad decision and I might well be wrong. But I will not be told by the self proclaimed Brexit-Taliban how I am to think, now or in the future.

 

[Danllan]

Ah here. In political terms of something of this scale absolutely nothing has happened. Brexit is something that will take probably a decade for people to say how it has had an effect, positive or negative, and on whom. Ye haven't even triggered Article 50 yet, nevermind left the EU. Even after a decade, it will be speculation as to whether things would have been better or worse at that time point if your aunt hadn't been your uncle.

 

[Danllan]

Why should it be undemocratic to think leaving the EU is an unwise choice? I happen to think it is a bad decision and I might well be wrong. But I will not be told by the self proclaimed Brexit-Taliban how I am to think, now or in the future.

Nothing undemocratic about thinking it unwise to leave the EU, nothing at all. Very undemocratic to try and prevent the will of the majority being implemented.

I do not attribute any Islamic ideology to my self.