Where did my steak come from.

caveman · Jul 23, 2017

Wooly said:
Probably correct if each load went from the farm straight to the mill.........but let's not pretend that the loads that go into storage, or on boats are not mixed with non assured crops !

As farmers we can guarantee the product until the point it leaves the farm. After that the guarantee expires as there are too many middlemen.........some of whom would sell their Granny for a quick buck!

Does not non assured grain become assured if it's placed in an assured store for 90 days?

DrWazzock · Jul 23, 2017

Where does it stop though? If you buy a burger in macdonalds are they expected to keep track of which animal it comes from and be able to inform the customers on demand? I don't think anybody would expect this to be reasonably possible nor would anybody want to pay for this extra information. Most people aren't bothered where it comes from, as long as it tastes good.

In the event of food poisoning, the system could be used to make a reasonable job of tracing sources of supply. That's good enough isn't it?

Anyway, I suppose that isn't the reason for the thread. The thread is arguing that food isn't traceable from farm to fork, which is correct IMO.

Maybe RT should back off from this assertion before becomes a rod for their own backs.

DrWazzock · Jul 23, 2017

caveman said:
Does not non assured grain become assured if it's placed in an assured store for 90 days?

No! And I wouldn't take anybody else's grain in so they can benefit for free from my efforts to comply with the scheme, whilst exposing me to prosecution.

Old Boar · Jul 23, 2017

There are different levels to this discussion. RT as a general assurance, or the specifics of the levels of assurance that RT are claiming.
I think most of us are fine at the general assurance as we all do our best for our animals/farms.

This is not the same as RT claiming full traceability back to a farm as they are doing with the "farm to fork" slogan.

From RT website, What we do, FAQ:- They (meat business) must keep records of incoming raw materials and production batches to allow full traceability back to the farms of origin

As they are talking about multiple bits of meat, they use farms, plural. This more than implies that each beast can be fully traced back to the farm, which I think we can agree has been proved not possible.

The website/logo/assurance should be changed to reflect this.

ladycrofter · Jul 23, 2017

Henarar said:
all those cattle have their own passport, it don't matter if there are cattle from 50 different farms on the lorry they can be traced

I was just thinking once they have gone through the processing - would you have several beasts from several farms in a load of mince for example?

Deereone · Jul 23, 2017

ladycrofter said:
I was just thinking once they have gone through the processing - would you have several beasts from several farms in a load of mince for example?

Yes.

7610 super q · Jul 23, 2017

Hmmm......gone off the whole idea.
Think I'll just have fish & chips instead.........

topground · Jul 23, 2017

Guy Smith said:
And laws on misrepresentation to consumers and advertising ASA codes are quite strict.

Your post suggests that there is active enforcement of the law in this area by the enforcement agencies responsible. A complaint to Trading Standards or ASA about a specific case would be the way to test the claims made.
Unfortunately the costs involved in investigating major players in the supply chain will deter most local authorities who are strapped for cash so it is unlikely to happen. They know that so carry on with the protection racket that is Farm Assurance.
The absence of any Trading Standards prosecution of any major manufacturers or retailers arising out of the fraudulent sale of Horsemeat passed off as beef is a recent example. Farm Assured or not.

TheTallGuy · Jul 23, 2017

Guy Smith said:
I'm loading the first of this seasons milling wheat out this week. I know it will go to make loaves of bread but I won't be able to trace grain by grain it all the way to every individual loaf because along the way it will be bulked up with other milling wheat from other farms.

But the consumer can be assured that if a loaf of bread has the RT logo on it then all the farms involved in producing wheat for that loaf had an RT assurance inspection to check they were operating to RT standards. It would probably also be possible to find out which farms put into the food chain involved in supplying the wheat that made the flour that made the bread. But there would be lots of farms involved and you could never be sure if the wheat from an individual farm ever got into the individual loaf.

The same applies to my milk.

As technology improves the way food ingredients can be identified and traced maybe one day I will be able to identify all the loaves my milling wheat went into - but given the bulking snd mixing that would have gone on it would undoubtedly involve thousand upon thousands of loaves.

I could mill all my wheat and turn the flour into bread and sell it on with my farm on it. That's a good idea as well.

I have a packet of crisps in front of me from a well known retailer that identifies not only the variety of tattie used, but also the field of origin - albeit a code rather than identifiable myself. Whilst tracing milk and grain is probably a step too far due to the batching process, the level of processing for lumps of meat (obviously not mince) is not much more complicated than the tatties in my packet of crisps - just on a larger scale. I worked on systems 15+ years ago in engineering that make the tracing the origins of meat look like child's play, but it would require the slaughterhouses and processors to actively engage with the process and follow procedures, but they are not such an easy target that will just roll over and comply.

joe soapy · Jul 23, 2017

gone up the hill said:
Being FA wont stop you getting a fine from Defra.

No it wont, but it does tend to impose a sort of discipline on the paperwork annually, bit like MOT on the vehicles

scholland · Jul 23, 2017

Grain is very different to beef, a loaf doesn't come from a farm but a steak certainly comes from 1 beast from 1 farm and I was too under the impression it was Trace able to that 1 beast. I actually think it is in Scotland see link http://www.scotbeef.com/agriculture/research-development/ so maybe the technology exists to trace a steak from a supermarket shelf back to a farm? Maybe worth an email @llamedos?
Our own beef goes to a local butcher, it arrives in halves at the butcher with the beasts tag number, dob, breed, sex, dod etc on a tally.

Derrick Hughes · Jul 23, 2017

Dont you think its all going a bit over the top when the first road kill restaurant opens up in the uk

Henarar · Jul 23, 2017

Forage Trader said:
Dont you think its all going a bit over the top when the first road kill restaurant opens up in the uk

do you get to know which road they came from when you order ?

FarmyStu · Jul 23, 2017

tullah said:
Gave up RT years ago. All my grain goes out of next doors store as RT assured. An inspection shows nothing untoward on the paperwork. And as that's all that matters to Farmerstu then he and his career seems to be a complete nomsense.

My career? Do you know what my career is? One thing it's not is doing assurance work on farms. If I said different I'd be fraudulent. You'd be an idiot to admit to fraud on a public website......

gone up the hill · Jul 23, 2017

Forage Trader said:
Dont you think its all going a bit over the top when the first road kill restaurant opens up in the uk

Reality is that 90% of comsumers don't know what the RT logo is/ stands for and more importantly DONT CARE what it stands for!

90% of consumers buy on price and the reality is that RT red tape is raising costs for UK producers and thus will price us out of the market post Brexit when we will be swamped by lower standard imports which 90% of consumers will jump at the chance of buying over and above our more expensive produce.

Derrick Hughes · Jul 23, 2017

Henarar said:
do you get to know which road they came from when you order ?

It come with Red Car Assurance

wdah/him · Jul 23, 2017

there once was a supermarket near here that had a board up stating where the beef was from, one week it had a mans name up, he had three cows and never finished a beast, looked good though.

Derrick Hughes · Jul 24, 2017

Trade Secretary Liam Fox is reportedly open to importing chickens from the US in order to secure a post-Brexit trade deal.

Dr Fox is travelling to Washington DC where he will meet US trade representative Robert Lighthizer for two days of talks at the first UK-US trade and investment working group.

The American Farming Association is adamant any deal must include agriculture, meaning chickens, hormone-fed beef and genetically modified crops could be exported to the UK.

Henarar · Jul 24, 2017

Forage Trader said:
Trade Secretary Liam Fox is reportedly open to importing chickens from the US in order to secure a post-Brexit trade deal.

Dr Fox is travelling to Washington DC where he will meet US trade representative Robert Lighthizer for two days of talks at the first UK-US trade and investment working group.

The American Farming Association is adamant any deal must include agriculture, meaning chickens, hormone-fed beef and genetically modified crops could be exported to the UK.

well in that case our government are a bunch of f**king hypocrites

TheTallGuy · Jul 24, 2017

Doesn't surprise me - foxes aren't fussy when it comes to chickens!

Where did my steak come from.

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