F**k business

Hindsight · Jun 24, 2018

Exfarmer said:
How do you explain the German model.
You forget as pound gets weaker imports cost more so we have to produce yet more to keep level.
It was a treadmill that the governments in the late 20th. century could not wean them selves off.
Thew situation is going to be made far worse if as seems extremely likely the serious high tech work such as as Airbus , Rolls Royce, Marconi etc. leave.
Still at least if the pound drops enough, we will have the prospect that vacuum cleaner production may get moved back here, and minions on the minimum wage will put them together so the EU can levy a 20% tax on their export across the channel

You make an interesting point. Every month the employment figures are released and trumpeted as highest employment ever - yet much of those are low paid jobs. The politicians seem to have been told (probably from years of focus groups) that high employment is essential to getting re-elected yet there seems scant interest in if those jobs pay a reasonable wage packet - as evidenced by this government and Labour before of tax credits. As ever I am pretty thick so do not understand a modern economy but seems odd to me. The mantra of full employment but happy to lose what I would call skilled technical jobs such as airbus which I presume will relocate to Germany or similar where making things seems valued. Hey ho - confused thick, six toed inbred Fenman here which probably explains all.

Henarar · Jun 24, 2018

Forage Trader said:
more often than not they go bust or get bored with it after a few years having ruined it for everyone else

yep that's the way it goes

joe soapy · Jun 24, 2018

Dont worry, it will be self correcting. Just take a look around any big car park and count the number of expensive german cars or italian or french or spanish etc.
see the imported wines,
the Eu will get a lot of pain if they lose our market.
As for the townies caring for UK ag, the village had no issues with stopping our access to our hay fields for a day

R J · Jun 24, 2018

A1an said:
Why drop a post like this then disappear?

Probably because Walter is involved in the service industry being a solicitor ( I expect very good at it too )
But actually has no idea about manufacturing and other such businesses

ollie989898 · Jun 24, 2018

R J said:
Probably because Walter is involved in the service industry being a solicitor ( I expect very good at it too )
But actually has no idea about manufacturing and other such businesses

Solicitors and accountants are renowned for being boring sods at the best of times, but they usually have the ability to make a point.

I rarely see any of that with our resident antagonist. Sour grapes and misery, like toothache.

DanniAgro · Jun 24, 2018

Jackov Altraids said:
Analysis of the last financial crisis and the following quantative easing showed that the "trickle down effect" was pretty insignificant and that most of the money created stayed within the greasy palms of those at the top.
Think of the billions being aggregated by facebook. That is almost entirely advertising money that would have been spread far and wide supporting thousands of jobs now sitting in a few peoples accounts. It doesn't trickle down. If transferred into bitcoin, it isn't even traceable.

Yes, the idea of "trickle down" is one of the most hilarious concepts in economics. I've never heard of it happening in my lifetime.

Cowabunga · Jun 24, 2018

DrWazzock said:
So it's not a case of f**k business, but let's get back to a system that rewards hard work and enterprise rather than the ability to fill in a claim form.

It is ironic that this is precisely what we did have and do have currently, yet you are unable to recognise it as such.

Yes there is a subsidy but it is decoupled from production. You are free to produce how much or how little you like and whether to abide by the rules to earn the subsidy or not. If you wish to work harder and 24 hours a day, seven days a week to 'earn more', you are absolutely free to do so. Filling in a claim form is entirely optional on your part.

Cowabunga · Jun 24, 2018

Forage Trader said:
If its tough get out, good business sense would suggest let some other fool do it.

What fxxks up haulage, people undercutting and trying to mussle in on someone else's contract, the old greed word again

Ah yes, 'competition' by any other name. It's a bugger.

Cowabunga · Jun 24, 2018

Forage Trader said:
more often than not they go bust or get bored with it after a few years having ruined it for everyone else

Maybe, maybe not. It is still private enterprise at its best, providing competition that keeps prices low for the customer, which as a good enterprising individual who muscled in on the forage market yourself, must surely believe is 'a good thing'.

Hindsight · Jun 24, 2018

Returning to the OP. Whether the Foreign Secretary did say a four letter expletive with reference to Business is I presume still conjecture. But earlier today on the Andrew Marr programme the Health Secretary was somewhat lukewarm when questioned about government progress and indecision raised by some businesses and the CBI. I think I heard him say 'siren voices' and something else I did not quite catch. And he was, I considered, evasive under questioning from Marr about the only 12 month old Tory manifesto promise on lowering corporate taxation.

R J · Jun 24, 2018

Exfarmer said:
How do you explain the German model.
You forget as pound gets weaker imports cost more so we have to produce yet more to keep level.
It was a treadmill that the governments in the late 20th. century could not wean them selves off.
Thew situation is going to be made far worse if as seems extremely likely the serious high tech work such as as Airbus , Rolls Royce, Marconi etc. leave.
Still at least if the pound drops enough, we will have the prospect that vacuum cleaner production may get moved back here, and minions on the minimum wage will put them together so the EU can levy a 20% tax on their export across the channel

Has not German manufacturing benefited from a week euro ?

Exfarmer · Jun 24, 2018

R J said:
Has not German manufacturing benefited from a week euro ?

Interesting point, but you must remember that the German economy was incredibly strong and the Mark equally all those years in the
late 20th C. whenwe were being told that devaluing our currency was good for us and yes due to certain problems , you could only take £50 out of the country with us.
The German economy certainly gained from the Euro as it enabled other European consumers access to very low interest rates thanks to the belief that the Euro was controlled by German Bankers.
This meant many consumers were purchasing German goods in the belief they were better than the shoddy products they had been used to but were the only ones they could afford.
Consequently certain Southern states now find themselves in a situation where consumer debt is at intolerable levels, partly due to the fact that property prices have not kept up and they do not have the fall back of cashing in on those values that we have had here.

newjames · Jun 24, 2018

It makes me laugh when people including politicians say we want/need high skilled jobs that pay high wages, who the f**k is going to serve in shops, cafes and work in hotels and tourist spots that a service based economy has to offer, banking and in particular share trading etc can and will be done by computer programmes getting shot of all those vastly over paid strokers,

roscoe erf · Jun 24, 2018

Canada Farmer said:
No..it would have a welsh name...... What's the words in welsh for a "house of pleasure?"

sheep farm

roscoe erf · Jun 24, 2018

A1an said:
Why drop a post like this then disappear?

modus operandi

Bury the Trash · Jun 24, 2018

roscoe erf said:
modus operandi

can get a cream for that.

roscoe erf · Jun 24, 2018

Bury the Trash said:
can get a cream for that.

wish he would

Canada Farmer · Jun 25, 2018

roscoe erf said:
sheep farm

Sorry , I'm not even remotely interested in seeing sheep sharing if I ever get that way

Superted820 · Jun 25, 2018

Henarar said:
no that's competition
just like the lad next door going out with dads tractor for 10 quid an hour you have to put up with it or get out of the job

But another way of looking at. It, and it’s the same in the ag contracting business, is that by going out undercutting other businesses just to get the work is not competition at all. If it’s done by other contractors out to get the work for whatever price they can get, it is greed and desperation. But not only that, it encourages all farmers to forget about that very important word “loyalty”.
I have experienced this myself in the last couple of years. A contractor nearby went out and bought loads of kit and has gone round cheaper than everyone else just to get the work to justify the kit he now has. Figures such as £15/ac for a sp forager, £28/hr for a 200hp tractor and 16T trailer etc etc. Yes you can argue he will only last so long, but in the meantime, how many other good genuine businesses will say balls to this and get out. The farmer in the meantime is happy, and prices will creep up without him noticing too much, but at some point the next guy with a point to prove and inherited money to burn will come along and undercut the first chap. And the farmer naturally will go to the new guy as he’s cheaper. Meanwhile the guy that originally did the work who charged a realistic rate and did a good job, has folded altogether. At some point it will all come to an abrupt halt for the genuine contractors, and all that will be left will be those that have built and are building businesses on money from elsewhere and vast amounts of credit. This isn’t competition at all. This is the slow demise of the industry.
Slightly wandered off topic there. Apologies to the OP!!

Henarar · Jun 25, 2018

Superted820 said:
But another way of looking at. It, and it’s the same in the ag contracting business, is that by going out undercutting other businesses just to get the work is not competition at all. If it’s done by other contractors out to get the work for whatever price they can get, it is greed and desperation. But not only that, it encourages all farmers to forget about that very important word “loyalty”.
I have experienced this myself in the last couple of years. A contractor nearby went out and bought loads of kit and has gone round cheaper than everyone else just to get the work to justify the kit he now has. Figures such as £15/ac for a sp forager, £28/hr for a 200hp tractor and 16T trailer etc etc. Yes you can argue he will only last so long, but in the meantime, how many other good genuine businesses will say balls to this and get out. The farmer in the meantime is happy, and prices will creep up without him noticing too much, but at some point the next guy with a point to prove and inherited money to burn will come along and undercut the first chap. And the farmer naturally will go to the new guy as he’s cheaper. Meanwhile the guy that originally did the work who charged a realistic rate and did a good job, has folded altogether. At some point it will all come to an abrupt halt for the genuine contractors, and all that will be left will be those that have built and are building businesses on money from elsewhere and vast amounts of credit. This isn’t competition at all. This is the slow demise of the industry.
Slightly wandered off topic there. Apologies to the OP!!

not much you can do about it though
you can say its unfair competition with outside money but that's no different than folks buying land with outside money driving the price up and forcing out genuine farmers
I have been involved in contracting all my working life and dad before me and have found most farmers are loyal if you provide a good service but then we in the main have always had lots of smallish customers which I was always glad of

F**k business

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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