The economics of autosteer

John 1594 · Apr 21, 2013

Stoxs said:
how is the casual driver going to understand how the control boxes work?
Yes you can set it up and let them go but what happens when said casual presses the wrong button ? or has to change field?
or as has happened it goes tits up and you need to reboot.
Anyone thinking Autosteer systems take skill away want to go set one up propperlly ! trust me there is so much these boxes can do even experianced drivers are finding new items and ways to operate them.

A good operator can make the most of the investment , shabby operators think its a waste of time and money!!!

Auto steer is only the begining of enless possibilities in the future , yes this could lead to less operators but the ones left will need to have a good head on their shoulders . Not just lever pushers or button pushers,

so im a shabby operator now, thats a good one if i ever heard it, best post of this thread

While im making things pay as well as they are, with 100% overlap and seemingly double the inputs to everyone else, il stick at it.

You all make your savings on autosteer and reduced inputs, i make mine on efficient use of older machinery and nil depreciation, in fact, most of the stuff in this yard is worth more than i paid for it, cant say that about your autosteer, new tractors and direct drills surely?

John 1594 · Apr 21, 2013

DrWazzock said:
Well I keep a set of traffic cones in the corner of my sprayer cab and if there are no tramlines I just set them down in a straight line and then move them 25 paces for 24 m each time I encounter one. As I only need to set out tramlines once a year, I reckon my time spent pacing is worth at least £20/hour against the cost and aggravation of one of those new tangled RTK wotsits and what's more I avoid deep vein thrombosis as I have to get off my a**e every now and again. Good straight and accurate too, and if the satellite packs up I will still be going but you blokes will be sat on the headland wondering what to do with your million pound toys. As said, the satellite can't do the outside round of a new field anyway, so pretty useless. Tried a light bar system once. Complete embarrassment. made me look a right t**t in front of customers when they switched the signal off. never again.

the human brain is a wonder of creation, and it keeps going even when you have no sattelite signal

trouble is now people are too lazy and plain bone idle to do any sort of mental work, they would rather be a slug in a seat responding to lights and beeps off a computer screen.

multi power · Apr 21, 2013

to be fair john you do have a good point there, as for being a shabby operator i realy dont think so, there is quite a bit of skill maintaining n operating older kit

John 1594 · Apr 21, 2013

Mdt said:
No I dont clive I feel its the next step forward, in my opinion you still need to be skilled operator to operate such machinery.

need to be even sharper to work without it, so far this year out of 75 acres of drilling whats come up, every tramline is where i wanted it, and when the peas come up behind the vaddy i expect those to be as well! All done off top of my head, no colour coded screen to tell me wheat ive drilled and what i havent, ive been driling long enough to know where ive been and where i havent

Clive · Apr 21, 2013

DrWazzock said:
Well I keep a set of traffic cones in the corner of my sprayer cab and if there are no tramlines I just set them down in a straight line and then move them 25 paces for 24 m each time I encounter one. As I only need to set out tramlines once a year, I reckon my time spent pacing is worth at least £20/hour against the cost and aggravation of one of those new tangled RTK wotsits and what's more I avoid deep vein thrombosis as I have to get off my a**e every now and again. Good straight and accurate too, and if the satellite packs up I will still be going but you blokes will be sat on the headland wondering what to do with your million pound toys. As said, the satellite can't do the outside round of a new field anyway, so pretty useless. Tried a light bar system once. Complete embarrassment. made me look a right t**t in front of customers when they switched the signal off. never again.

Great system and what i spent loads of time doing years ago when i was a sprayer driver (used to use cap of spray containers) but I bet you can't spray 5-600ac in a day doing that like a man with rtk auto-steer could !

Clive · Apr 21, 2013

John 1594 said:
need to be even sharper to work without it, so far this year out of 75 acres of drilling whats come up, every tramline is where i wanted it, and when the peas come up behind the vaddy i expect those to be as well! All done off top of my head, no colour coded screen to tell me wheat ive drilled and what i havent, ive been driling long enough to know where ive been and where i havent

Tramlines ? On a drill ? What a quaint old fashioned idea !

John 1594 · Apr 21, 2013

Clive said:
Tramlines ? On a drill ? What a quaint old fashioned idea !

7 years ago we dridnt even have that! MF 30 and step tramlines up with 1st run in crop

Do you not suffer with a sh!t sample due to green ears in the base of your wheelings at harvest

Oh sorry i forgot, you have a lexion, a sh!t sample is standard.

multi power · Apr 21, 2013

like anything else there is pros n cons, not so long ago i hered about somebody, a contractor spraying glyphospate, he had some kind of gps system but still missed a meret or so every bout !
i hate technology n im probabaly too thick to understand it but i still think some form of gps would be a wise investment, thats just on grassland work

Mdt · Apr 21, 2013

John 1594 said:
need to be even sharper to work without it, so far this year out of 75 acres of drilling whats come up, every tramline is where i wanted it, and when the peas come up behind the vaddy i expect those to be as well! All done off top of my head, no colour coded screen to tell me wheat ive drilled and what i havent, ive been driling long enough to know where ive been and where i havent

John before I got rtk I could plough bang on straight all day, today I use rtk so can constantly tweak plough to get best out of it without having to look ahead all time! Yes satellites do drop occasionally and when they do I can still take over and still be straight, thats skills which is best of both worlds. Rtk isnt really needed for ploughing will say that but rtk really comes into its own for landwork like the sld and power harrowing etc thats where it pays off!! You obviously dont agree with gps thats fine but there is those who do get benefits and savings etc from it because it obviously works for them. the amount of diesel I have saved after two seasons now is considerable to the point I reckon its just about paid for itself now.

John 1594 · Apr 21, 2013

multi power said:
like anything else there is pros n cons, not so long ago i hered about somebody, a contractor spraying glyphospate, he had some kind of gps system but still missed a meret or so every bout !
i hate technology n im probabaly too thick to understand it but i still think some form of gps would be a wise investment, thats just on grassland work

paint the fenceposts, ideal on horsey paddocks.

We used to spray cerals with two bits of chain hung off the end of the sprayer boom, turn in a semi circle each end and the chain would be on the edge of the last bout. Followe the perfectly straight coulter mark back through the field and hey presto, no stepping up

I got the knack of stepping up quick enough, 1 pole each end of the field, kick a mark 12 yds from tractor, place pole 24yds, drive through and repeat the process at each end, perfect tramlines and you wasnt a fat bas***d at the end of the season

DrWazzock · Apr 21, 2013

Clive said:
Great system and what i spent loads of time doing years ago when i was a sprayer driver (used to use cap of spray containers) but I bet you can't spray 5-600ac in a day doing that like a man with rtk auto-steer could !

I can't, Clive, and I would not want to. I don't disagree that RTK auto steer has its place in large scale agriculture, where it is probably essential now, but for us smaller operators, the outlay, ongoing costs, complexity and loss of control aren't really worth it in my opinion.

And I do get some pleasure marking out the old way. Not in a rush, nice day out.

What's wrong with tramlines on drills? Don't waste seed and accurate to 5 cm in 24m good enough for me. On my malting barley I blank off 2 rows on tramlines for avoid green grains etc. Don't like to mantle it down and get re growth.

Robt · Apr 21, 2013

John1594
You really are being rude and uneducated abou drivers using GPS.
As said it takes great skill to set up and get the most out of!
You lose your credibility by saying all lexions have sh!t samples.... So sh!t in fact they are the uk's best selling combine!
I really don't understand just where that chip on your shoulder comes from ! You sound well educated, intelligent, wise and careful yet you let yourself down with petty insults to very popular machines. I'm sorry but that does show your age! A wise man is one that never stops learning and never stops asking advice

Stoxs · Apr 21, 2013

Robt said:
John1594
You really are being rude and uneducated abou drivers using GPS.
As said it takes great skill to set up and get the most out of!
You lose your credibility by saying all lexions have sh!t samples.... So sh!t in fact they are the uk's best selling combine!
I really don't understand just where that chip on your shoulder comes from ! You sound well educated, intelligent, wise and careful yet you let yourself down with petty insults to very popular machines. I'm sorry but that does show your age! A wise man is one that never stops learning and never stops asking advice

BECAUSE on 75 acres it is not justifiable and he dosnt understand what farming 7500 acres is like!

I am unsure why he bothers with the combustion engine?
alot cheaper with a shovel and you won`t have time to be on here trolling!!!!!

cvx175 · Apr 21, 2013

John 1594 said:
paint the fenceposts, ideal on horsey paddocks.

That might just work on your ground but what if there's one of those hill things between you and the fence at the other end? Or its dark?

John 1594 · Apr 21, 2013

Robt said:
John1594
You really are being rude and uneducated abou drivers using GPS.
As said it takes great skill to set up and get the most out of!
You lose your credibility by saying all lexions have sh!t samples.... So sh!t in fact they are the uk's best selling combine!
I really don't understand just where that chip on your shoulder comes from ! You sound well educated, intelligent, wise and careful yet you let yourself down with petty insults to very popular machines. I'm sorry but that does show your age! A wise man is one that never stops learning and never stops asking advice

past experince is the reasoning behing most my arguments, ive done a lot in my short life, and seen a lot too, without even travelling out the county. Both lexions i had displeasure of working with (460 and 470) were awful compared to their different coloured replacements. Yes they went fast (an illusion that always sells things) but at end of day, what they left in the field was shocking

Chip on shoulder comes from so called "experienced" operators telling me gps is the dogs balls, then when thier wheat comes up it looks worse than mine. There no "letterboxes2 in our fields, i know one chap who has 1000 acre of wheat, all with 4m gaps on each headland.

Who has lost more, he probably has more uncropped area over a 1000 acres than im even farming!

yorkie · Apr 21, 2013

DrWazzock said:
Well I keep a set of traffic cones in the corner of my sprayer cab and if there are no tramlines I just set them down in a straight line and then move them 25 paces for 24 m each time I encounter one. As I only need to set out tramlines once a year, I reckon my time spent pacing is worth at least £20/hour against the cost and aggravation of one of those new tangled RTK wotsits and what's more I avoid deep vein thrombosis as I have to get off my a**e every now and again. Good straight and accurate too, and if the satellite packs up I will still be going but you blokes will be sat on the headland wondering what to do with your million pound toys. As said, the satellite can't do the outside round of a new field anyway, so pretty useless. Tried a light bar system once. Complete embarrassment. made me look a right t**t in front of customers when they switched the signal off. never again.

cones don't work with a hill in field,you can do outside round of field if you no what you are doing

Clive · Apr 21, 2013

DrWazzock said:
I can't, Clive, and I would not want to. I don't disagree that RTK auto steer has its place in large scale agriculture, where it is probably essential now, but for us smaller operators, the outlay, ongoing costs, complexity and loss of control aren't really worth it in my opinion.

And I do get some pleasure marking out the old way. Not in a rush, nice day out.

What's wrong with tramlines on drills? Don't waste seed and accurate to 5 cm in 24m good enough for me. On my malting barley I blank off 2 rows on tramlines for avoid green grains etc. Don't like to mantle it down and get re growth.

Nothing wrong with tramlining on the drill other than they move every year unless you drill field the same way every year very accurately. Putting them in with the sprayer running on rtk allows us to put them in exactly the same place every year meaning we can drill at an angle and have no need to cultivate out last season tramlines which just get better and carry sprayer weight better every year as they pack down like a roadway

Stoxs · Apr 21, 2013

Clive said:
Great system and what i spent loads of time doing years ago when i was a sprayer driver (used to use cap of spray containers) but I bet you can't spray 5-600ac in a day doing that like a man with rtk auto-steer could !

and the next day and the next day and the next 3 weeks!!!
then turn round and do it all again!

John 1594 · Apr 21, 2013

Stoxs said:
BECAUSE on 75 acres it is not justifiable and he dosnt understand what farming 7500 acres is like!

I am unsure why he bothers with the combustion engine?
alot cheaper with a shovel and you won`t have time to be on here trolling!!!!!

no matter im main driver on just under 600 acre for forseeable future, that chap has no interest in gps either, granted him and his son aint exatcly brilliant drivers, what ive done so far puts them to shame, so he saving money already!

Clive · Apr 21, 2013

John 1594 said:
past experince is the reasoning behing most my arguments, ive done a lot in my short life, and seen a lot too, without even travelling out the county. Both lexions i had displeasure of working with (460 and 470) were awful compared to their different coloured replacements. Yes they went fast (an illusion that always sells things) but at end of day, what they left in the field was shocking

Chip on shoulder comes from so called "experienced" operators telling me gps is the dogs balls, then when thier wheat comes up it looks worse than mine. There no "letterboxes2 in our fields, i know one chap who has 1000 acre of wheat, all with 4m gaps on each headland.

Who has lost more, he probably has more uncropped area over a 1000 acres than im even farming!

This is why there is skill involved with using GPS as well - it's not a driver replacement just a driver aid

There is also a world of difference in accuracy between a entry level system accuracy and a top of range rtk system

The economics of autosteer

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0 %

Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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