The Claydon Terrablade
- Thread starter Fat hen
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Suffolk Serf
Member
- Location
- Bury/Thetford
Wheat-Wheat-OSR is one isn't it? Just a terrible one for blackgrass.
It not even close to being a rotation
Alternate crops winter / spring and black grass would never have been an issue
.......... bit like previous generations did !
Grass weeds are a symptom of poor soil health and questionable farming practice (rotation, over use of certain. actives, mining of organic matter , over use of N, neglect of basics like pH and drainage etc) not the “problem”
If it’s pointless treating symptoms - fix the problem
Last edited:
mikep
Member
- Location
- Arse end of Surrey, UK
Quoth he who is without. That must make me an expert on oilseed rape!
mikep
Member
- Location
- Arse end of Surrey, UK
rubbish, its not so simple.
Previous generations included a lot of pasture in the rotation as there was a huge horse and oxen popultion to feed beside meat and milk animals.
They ran summer fallows and ploughed up to 6 or more times to clean the land.
The cereals grown were not semi dwarfs but much more competitive so had a good effect of smothering and competing with weeds. All cereals were very long strawed as the straw was worth as much as the grain.
Row crops were horse and hand hoed several times.
The population was tiny by comparison so were the yields.
I agree BG is a farm made problem but its not just a case of changing a few things here and there as the fundamentals have changed. All cereals are midgets nowdays and weeds can outcompete easily. How many farms can afford hand hoeing? How much more grass can be put down without killing the cattle or sheep trade and dont forget that meat consumption is declining quite rapidly.
Soil health is important but only one very small peice of a very complex jigsaw with lots of other bits missing.
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
It must be wonderful to be totally without blemish or fault. At least we don't need to blast Palio into our hedgerows to keep the brome at bay.
P.S. where is the evidence that grassweeds are a symptom of poor soil health? We have the worst black-grass issues on our old meadow soils which are definitely higher fertility than the rest of the farm.
- Location
- E Yorks
Clive you missed the easiest quickest solution to solving blackgrass the Triton Drill. Sorry couldn’t resist!!
The evidence is that black grass didn’t used to be the problem it is today ...... and all that despite no chemical control for previous generations
And whose blasting hedgerows with anything ? I’m certainly not !
I used to have a big grasseeed problem and today it’s literaly none existent, reason is simple imo ROTATION and Diversity
You say rubbish and then agree with me by describing a diverse rotation and farming system that would have resulted in far better soil health
WW / WW /OSR or other vaguely similar but equally bad rotations is why many have bad blackgrass, Throw in a bit of stupid “mintill” with a “cultivator” drill and you have the perfect storm
Big problem most have today that the hole dug is just to big to climb out of
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
I have heard suggestions that soil health is responsible for worsening black-grass, but have not seen any good evidence. I don't think soil health is that important. Rather I think it's rotation, perhaps non-inversion deep tillage and drilling dates.
Rotation and diversity - I’ve not even mentioned zerotill in this thread as I don’t think it’s the silver bullet re grassweeds, its helpful at best
The silver bullet if there is one is diversity of cash crops, cover crops, drilling dates, chemical active spectrums and timings ........ diversity
The only evidence I need is my experience on my farm
15 years ago I had a grassweed problem and it was getting worse, today I don’t have an issue at all
It’s cost me significantly in lost gross output growing such a high % of lower gross margin spring crops but that loss is affordable when you can also halve your fixed cost structure as a result
When you see such a change it rather irrelevant what any peer reviewed paper might say.
Zero doubt whatsoever here, if you want rid of grassweeds then get the diversity right !
15 years ago I had a grassweed problem and it was getting worse, today I don’t have an issue at all
It’s cost me significantly in lost gross output growing such a high % of lower gross margin spring crops but that loss is affordable when you can also halve your fixed cost structure as a result
When you see such a change it rather irrelevant what any peer reviewed paper might say.
Zero doubt whatsoever here, if you want rid of grassweeds then get the diversity right !
I wasn’t always without, Bg never got bad here but boy could we grow Broome and rye grass etc !
Suffolk Serf
Member
- Location
- Bury/Thetford
Sorry, was just stirring up the proverbial, which has worked well.
As I operate as the livestock element in another farmers rotation I am fully on board that a good rotation is vital. I run much maligned outdoor pigs which in my case is seen as the "good guy" in a rotation which otherwise involves root vegetables, sugar beet and maize. There is no blackgrass but the soil is absolutely hammered.
Suffolk Serf
Member
- Location
- Bury/Thetford
I totally agree. And its very strange that its the people that have owned the land since the 16th century and will own it for many more generations are the ones that don't realise how they are treating it like dirt.
mikep
Member
- Location
- Arse end of Surrey, UK
The edit said rubbish I said bllx.
If you re read the post I pointed out you were totally missing the point in comparing an old rotation to a modern one as they are chalk and cheese.
There is no way you can call any modern cereal competitive in relation to weeds but the old ones are.
Here is a competitive crop of wheat on really poor triple resistant BG land, unsprayed and only 30N. If this was Skyfall or any other modern it would be BG heads only. This is completely unprofitable as a commodity so no use to most farmers today.
You neglected to take in board the fact that an awfull lot of hand labour was done and what would happen to all the extra grass needed to rotate.
Glib sound bites about soil health and sound rotations may sound good but the devil as always is in the detail which you fail to address.
mikep
Member
- Location
- Arse end of Surrey, UK
For a better idea of the scale here is a good size collie in a tramline.
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