The War on Meat has begun

ISCO

Member
Location
North East
surely the alternative for foreign students is to study in their own country?
The problem we have is that there is an easy alternative to beef; white meat or plant based that large companies who support the propaganda against meat are developing. The alternative to travelling is to stay at home which people find unacceptable.
My fear is that people will see giving up beef as the easy option. They will then think they are doing their bit and carry on with all other activities which damage the environment
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
I just watched the you you tube video and it made great sense to me. Answer is to try to lift third world women out of poverty I think.

Yes, that is obviously the case, but the problem with Africa is that of massive corruption and wars, more than any other continent. Many, if not most countries on the continent are dysfunctional and bind their population in perpetual poverty with poor access to health services and that high child mortality mentioned in the video and many other videos of lectures by Hans on the same subject.
 

Scribus

Member
Location
Central Atlantic
Yes, that is obviously the case, but the problem with Africa is that of massive corruption and wars, more than any other continent. Many, if not most countries on the continent are dysfunctional and bind their population in perpetual poverty with poor access to health services and that high child mortality mentioned in the video and many other videos of lectures by Hans on the same subject.

This are but symptoms of a deeper misunderstanding here in the developed world. What we don't see is that society in Africa is often built and run along tribal lines with tribal mores and values. It would appear to be incompatible with what we fondly regard as a nice democratic liberal west and our 'system' will never fit the machinations within populations that have a completey different set of cultures.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
This are but symptoms of a deeper misunderstanding here in the developed world. What we don't see is that society in Africa is often built and run along tribal lines with tribal mores and values. It would appear to be incompatible with what we fondly regard as a nice democratic liberal west and our 'system' will never fit the machinations within populations that have a completey different set of cultures.
They have had self rule for generations and in general terms, whether they have dictatorships or some kind of democracy, mismanagement and war and corruption manifest and dominate. In general terms Africa is a shambles that makes no progress from one generation to the next. Hence the overwhelming poverty and high birth and death rates with an expanding population in societies that cannot organise food production, storage and distribution, to consistently meet their needs. They cannot afford to import much, because they do not produce much to create wealth to pay for it. When they do produce something, the ruling elite syphon billions away for themselves.
 

SteveHants

Member
Livestock Farmer
The War on Meat has begun, and there are many reasons to join the resistance





The BBC, misreporting a United Nations report, wants us to switch to a mostly plant-based diet in order to alter the weather. Would it work? No. A recent “meta-analysis” of all the peer-reviewed papers on this topic found that if the average westerner gave up meat altogether it would cut her total emissions by just 4.3 per cent. This is because food is only a modest part of our emissions. And since vegetables are cheap, the savings would almost certainly be spent on other things with emissions attached, so the actual reduction would be even smaller than that.The effect on cl;imate would be unmeasurable.


Is there a link to the metanalysis itself?
It would make quite interesting reading.

That said, metanalyses often seem to make the mistake of overgeneralising. I spend a lot of time lately having to deconstruct the "meat is bad for the planet" ones for this very reason.
 

Scribus

Member
Location
Central Atlantic
They have had self rule for generations and in general terms, whether they have dictatorships or some kind of democracy, mismanagement and war and corruption manifest and dominate. In general terms Africa is a shambles that makes no progress from one generation to the next. Hence the overwhelming poverty and high birth and death rates with an expanding population in societies that cannot organise food production, storage and distribution, to consistently meet their needs. They cannot afford to import much, because they do not produce much to create wealth to pay for it. When they do produce something, the ruling elite syphon billions away for themselves.

Exactly so, and the reason being that over the past couple of centuries we have tried imposing a quite alien system upon the continent and are now judging the failure as if it were their own rather than ours.
 
Times like this I am glad to be very small farmer. I can close the gate if they don't want the produce and live quite happily on pheasant and rabbit and a few cattle and sheep for home consumption. A lot less bother all round.
These people should be careful what they wish for. I am not obliged to produce food.

This is exactly how I feel at this time so how many other farmers feel like this I think it could be considerable I’m not offrreing any solutions but this solution may eventually solve its own problem but time will tell
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
Exactly so, and the reason being that over the past couple of centuries we have tried imposing a quite alien system upon the continent and are now judging the failure as if it were their own rather than ours.
Oh come on! Dump your false guilt on behalf of 'we'. They had self rule before colonisation and have had self rule, and in general despotism and war and corruption ever since, which is at least 50 years or more now for most countries.
They have been masters of their own destiny for long enough. Sadly most have been in a consistent decline ever since. None have made much of an advance as far as I can see. Many have seen their economy, law and order absolutely trashed.
 

Scribus

Member
Location
Central Atlantic
Oh come on! Dump your false guilt on behalf of 'we'. They had self rule before colonisation and have had self rule, and in general despotism and war and corruption ever since, which is at least 50 years or more now for most countries.
They have been masters of their own destiny for long enough. Sadly most have been in a consistent decline ever since. None have made much of an advance as far as I can see. Many have seen their economy, law and order absolutely trashed.

Self rule in what way? Africa is a continent that has been divided up to suit the white man, it's not a question of guilt but confronting reality.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
Self rule in what way? Africa is a continent that has been divided up to suit the white man, it's not a question of guilt but confronting reality.

They have had more than half a century to sort themselves out. They haven't. Wars are generally not about borders but tribal and religious. In other areas it is almost pure mismanagement. It is you that needs to face reality. Unless those issues are tackled, by themselves, they will be no further forward in another 100 years than they are now. It is nobody's responsibility but their own.
 

Scribus

Member
Location
Central Atlantic
They have had more than half a century to sort themselves out. They haven't. Wars are generally not about borders but tribal and religious. In other areas it is almost pure mismanagement. It is you that needs to face reality. Unless those issues are tackled, by themselves, they will be no further forward in another 100 years than they are now. It is nobody's responsibility but their own.

You are missing my point here.

African countries have a completely different social legacy to those in the west. We imposed the west's system on people to suit ourselves, not the various populations of the continent. It might come right in 500 years if we stop exploiting the place, but 50 years is far too short a time frame.
 

Dry Rot

Member
Livestock Farmer
Yes, but this isn't some quack. He explains his reasoning very well in many lectures and nobody has ever successfully debunked it. Not many have even tried, because they know he was and is right.

Well, Sir David Attenborough and I are sticking to our guns. Humans are destined to follow the road trod by most animals that have gone through a population explosion.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
Well, Sir David Attenborough and I are sticking to our guns. Humans are destined to follow the road trod by most animals that have gone through a population explosion.
David Attenborough is a past-it television presenter and has nowhere near the knowledge of population trends that experts have. However, you all agree that African population will continue to grow, except that the world's population is unlikely ever to exceed 11 billion living people. Almost all the extra compared to today will be in Africa, while Asian numbers decline and America and Europe will remain more or less static.
 

Dry Rot

Member
Livestock Farmer
David Attenborough is a past-it television presenter and has nowhere near the knowledge of population trends that experts have. However, you all agree that African population will continue to grow, except that the world's population is unlikely ever to exceed 11 billion living people. Almost all the extra compared to today will be in Africa, while Asian numbers decline and America and Europe will remain more or less static.

Personally, I don't intend to stick around to find out! I only know that when I came up here over 40 years ago, the main road north was single track and if you met another car, you waved. Since then every ruin has been renovated and every plot is built on and the main road is nose to tail.

Can't wait for the population explosion to peak.:D
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
Personally, I don't intend to stick around to find out! I only know that when I came up here over 40 years ago, the main road north was single track and if you met another car, you waved. Since then every ruin has been renovated and every plot is built on and the main road is nose to tail.

Can't wait for the population explosion to peak.:D
It has peaked. Only by immigration has the UK population increased in recent years. Immigration means emigration elsewhere of course and it seems to have dropped off a cliff recently to the extent that labour is short.

You only have to look at local rural schools everywhere to know that the population will soon decline even more, as the 1960's baby boomers die off. Schools have been running at way less than half the numbers of children compared to when I were a lad in the 60's. That in itself has meant that massive numbers of schools have needed to be shut down.

Yes, of course there are more people than in the 60's but it has been a linear growth over the last forty years at least, not an exponential growth, locally as well as globally, as it was into the late 1970's. And that growth will turn into a decline locally and globally in about 30 year's time as us oldies die off in droves.

The major issue until then is not the numbers of people as such, but the ratio of oldies verses younger ones of taxpaying age. The cost of pensions and healthcare for the oldies. Not just in the UK but everywhere.
 

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