Gothmog
Member
- Location
- South Yorkshire
The field I had DD trial in had muck on half of it and they still hammered that half where it was DD.
slugs and direct drilling
- Thread starter Badshot
- Start date
The field I had DD trial in had muck on half of it and they still hammered that half where it was DD.
amount of worms I'm seeing is astounding now, was a lot last year but the numbers have really built this year, Im also seeing much bigger worms now, i.e. mature adults able to get that old because I'm no longer killing them before they get old, big and fat
slug pellet use this year is almost nothing really - coincidence ?
My feeling is that it was better where I baled, in a way it's a shame I mucked it as it's muddied the water, still too many slugs though, but I did get on top of them.
SilliamWhale
Member
As you wish but i can tell you that looking at the drill not the system as a whole is a blind alley.
The reason I ask drill make was it sounds like lack on consolidation around the seed and soil cover may help create a slug motorway.
SilliamWhale
Member
I really rate the firming wheel with the 750. Tends to push seed into soil rather than leaving it in fluff. I think it makes it moren difficult for slugs
Gothmog
Member
- Location
- South Yorkshire
One had firming wheels and that was the worse of the two.
I think that for certain soils they just wont do the job.
The land is heavy stuff, old outcrop stuff with horrible bands of clays running through it.
Very hard to get a good seed bed. Just pulling something through it tends to make lumps that's next to impossible to get rid of. Plough and leave over winter always brings best conditions.
But I was wanting to keep the bit of tilth on the top. not plough it under each year so was keen on the DD.
On a lighter field last year was fine.
SilliamWhale
Member
I think if your not convinced its best to probably stick with what your doing.
doorknob
Member
- Location
- Hillsboro Oregon USA
HUH??????????
While I may agree that it is best to lower the acreage when experimenting after a failure, I still try to help people keep their hopes up and share ideas when possible.
Just because some may not carry the no-till bible with them, does not mean they can not be successful at conservation. It just means they have a different need than can not be met by purely following the scriptures.
doorknob
Member
- Location
- Hillsboro Oregon USA
Years ago on my dad's farm, I used to work with what I feel is quite similar in nature to your soils description above. It was productive soil, but using the standard array of equipment just would not work.
On this soil, have you even tried having a heavy cultivator about 20 minutes ahead of a cultivator with a press behind it and a broadcast the seed between the two cultivators?
It seems that sometimes, this soil type can not use a currently produced drill type. Broadcast and either heavy harrowed in or shallow cultivate with a heavy press behind the broadcaster can work. But the first heavy cultivator must not be more than a few minutes ahead of the seed incorporater.
Just curious if you have tried this or think it can work for your soil? It would not destroy the soil's deep structure like the plough.
Trash has been the main issue for me with regard to slugs. Two fields where straw was chopped have been hammered. Patches where I had burned the straw after a rake had created lumps there was no slug damage at all! In association with poorer tilth/consolidation and the trash is a slug haven. This is on land which has not grown rape for 10+ years and I have not applied any pellets at all in the last 8 years.
Where straw was baled slugs have not been an issue.
So is this year just the result of a slug fest due to the mild winter? Slug damage has been seen on all establishment methods.
Going forward I apply a lot of chicken muck so am thinking of a carrier type light cultivation prior to drilling to 1- incorporate muck 2 - incorporate straw 3 - in wetter years create a tilth prior to drilling.
Where straw was baled slugs have not been an issue.
So is this year just the result of a slug fest due to the mild winter? Slug damage has been seen on all establishment methods.
Going forward I apply a lot of chicken muck so am thinking of a carrier type light cultivation prior to drilling to 1- incorporate muck 2 - incorporate straw 3 - in wetter years create a tilth prior to drilling.
I hope this is true. As you say, it is hard to find written evidence, but it has to be said that were we have a healthy worm population we've had no slug trouble. Even from under thick straw, the cover crops have grown away. Where the worms are thin underground (if you know what I mean), it's a slightly different story.
SilliamWhale
Member
I'm sure if I told him to stick at it and he should look at x and y you'd come on and tell me that I was wrong and that it won't work everywhere and I was being too hardcore. I don't think I can win with you.
Quit the bible stuff please, is patronising. Nearly all of my ground is now been no tilled for over 6-10 years now, its nothing to do with scriptures its all to do with planning and thinking rationally about the next steps in 12, 24 and 36 months ahead.
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doorknob
Member
- Location
- Hillsboro Oregon USA
I don't think I can win with you.
On that,...we do wholeheartedly agree. 
But on my end anyway, I am trying to keep the disagreements on a forum personality only base as much as possible. In other words, even though we will likely never trust a word either of us has to say, if I were to find you in need of help (should we be on the same continent) I would most certainly stop to help you. Whether you would do the same, is your decision.
shakerator
Member
- Location
- LINCS
slugs on clay will not be beaten by consolidation (unless you want to drown them with standing water, or unless your drilling into long term pasture)
the stubble on my clay takes twice as long to break down as the lighter more aerobic areas. it is improving with manures but i think we are potentially reducing nutrient efficency by keeping it anerobic. this incomplete decompostion is ideal for slugs. however, im not convinced cultivation improves breakdown either, just distrubtes the acids away! 95 years out of 100 i would suggest heavy land holds more water than an annual crop takes up (without moving soil)
water equation/ evaporation removal against no till:
ploughing early 50-80mm?
subsoiling 30-40mm?
shallow disk 15-25mm?
the stubble on my clay takes twice as long to break down as the lighter more aerobic areas. it is improving with manures but i think we are potentially reducing nutrient efficency by keeping it anerobic. this incomplete decompostion is ideal for slugs. however, im not convinced cultivation improves breakdown either, just distrubtes the acids away! 95 years out of 100 i would suggest heavy land holds more water than an annual crop takes up (without moving soil)
water equation/ evaporation removal against no till:
ploughing early 50-80mm?
subsoiling 30-40mm?
shallow disk 15-25mm?
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SilliamWhale
Member
You may be correct because of monoculture etc. but why isn't your water table rising then?
shakerator
Member
- Location
- LINCS
i think it does rise in the no till fields
no till in the sense of wicking water out replacing steel isnt really compatible with tile drains
SilliamWhale
Member
What would happen in a grass field? Although that probably does respire more than a cereal or oilseed crop.
Maybe we need more plants in our crops?
No, but wheat after grass can be hammered by them, it's nearly as bad as after rape some years, maybe worse as it is normally November before I plough it up so the wheat is slow growing.
Dont be fooled into thinking a grass ley is perfectly in balance, it isn't, it's just there is lots for them to eat in comparison to a fresh planted crop. Someone who's got dairy could no doubt tell you the amount of freshweight per acre. it will be massive. New seeded leys have been wiped out by slugs here too.