Are the days of lambing inside numbered?

Farmer Keith · Nov 12, 2020

I wouldn’t say there’s a hygiene issue here, pens are cleaned out inbetween sheep and limed, the main pen is possibly dirtier than it was before we fed silage but the ewes milk better than when we were all hay so we hardly put colostrum in a lamb these days.

I know from discussions with our vet and work done within a discussion group that here my usage is at the lower end of the spectrum and I was mearly wondering if it would be an issue going forward for the industry as a whole not just the top preforming 10% who have never treated or lost a lamb from watery mouth or had a case of joint ill.

Mc115reed · Nov 12, 2020

Farmer Keith said:
I wouldn’t say there’s a hygiene issue here, pens are cleaned out inbetween sheep and limed, the main pen is possibly dirtier than it was before we fed silage but the ewes milk better than when we were all hay so we hardly put colostrum in a lamb these days.

I know from discussions with our vet and work done within a discussion group that here my usage is at the lower end of the spectrum and I was mearly wondering if it would be an issue going forward for the industry as a whole not just the top preforming 10% who have never treated or lost a lamb from watery mouth or had a case of joint ill.

What is your reason behind routine spectam / other ab use at lambing? I had a lot of watery mouth issues this year at lambing, it was fairly quickly rectified when I started liming mothering Pens between ewes normally id only do it when I had 5 minutes spare .. there’s normally a reason for it and just using ab’s just hides the problem

Farmer Keith · Nov 12, 2020

Mc115reed said:
What is your reason behind routine spectam / other ab use at lambing? I had a lot of watery mouth issues this year at lambing, it was fairly quickly rectified when I started liming mothering Pens between ewes normally id only do it when I had 5 minutes spare .. there’s normally a reason for it and just using ab’s just hides the problem

Im reducing year on year I’ve no idea why it started but assume there was a problem before my time, when I was being brought up lambs got an Orojet dose and navels iodined, like many in my generation I’m sure that’s just how it was. Maybe not using it at all won’t be an issue. One thing seems certain we will find out soon enough. Plenty up here do the 0.5ml Betamox thing to.

Mc115reed · Nov 12, 2020

Farmer Keith said:
Im reducing year on year I’ve no idea why it started but assume there was a problem before my time, when I was being brought up lambs got an Orojet dose and navels iodined, like many in my generation I’m sure that’s just how it was. Maybe not using it at all won’t be an issue. One thing seems certain we will find out soon enough. Plenty up here do the 0.5ml Betamox thing to.

Can’t believe people are routinely injecting lambs as there born just for the hell of it thats madness [emoji85]

Farmer Keith · Nov 12, 2020

Mc115reed said:
Can’t believe people are routinely injecting lambs as there born just for the hell of it thats madness [emoji85]

It’s driven by economics surely, a £15 bottle of betamox will do 200 lambs so by my maths that’s 7.5p a lamb, pretty cheap safety net if you’re not concerned about the ethics of it all.

Greythundercloudys · Nov 12, 2020

Iv lmbed inside for 30 years, never had much bother with waterie mouth, have everything else but luckily not many with that over a season or thirty.

Anymulewilldo · Nov 12, 2020

Farmer Keith said:
I wouldn’t say there’s a hygiene issue here, pens are cleaned out inbetween sheep and limed, the main pen is possibly dirtier than it was before we fed silage but the ewes milk better than when we were all hay so we hardly put colostrum in a lamb these days.

I know from discussions with our vet and work done within a discussion group that here my usage is at the lower end of the spectrum and I was mearly wondering if it would be an issue going forward for the industry as a whole not just the top preforming 10% who have never treated or lost a lamb from watery mouth or had a case of joint ill.

Anyone who tells you they have never lost a lamb, had a bit of watery mouth or a case of joint ill is talking crap...

even those in the top of the heap get it occasionally. We get a few watery mouthed triplets every now and then. But never enough to merit blanket treatment.

sheep breeder · Nov 12, 2020

Farmer Keith said:
It’s driven by economics surely, a £15 bottle of betamox will do 200 lambs so by my maths that’s 7.5p a lamb, pretty cheap safety net if you’re not concerned about the ethics of it all.

It is something that a breeder in Scotland was doing with all his lambs at birth and he reckoned that if a bottle saved just one lamb it paid for itself, as he said it’s always a good lamb that dies. Just out of curiosity where are you jag your lambs when born, as thinking of doing our lambs this season.

Anymulewilldo · Nov 12, 2020

sheep breeder said:
It is something that a breeder in Scotland was doing with all his lambs at birth and he reckoned that if a bottle saved just one lamb it paid for itself, as he said it’s always a good lamb that dies. Just out of curiosity where are you jag your lambs when born, as thinking of doing our lambs this season.

Intra muscular job for Betamox.

ISCO · Nov 12, 2020

We started routine spectam (neo biotic at the time) 35 years ago on vets advice due to watery mouth and Betamox a few years later again on vet advice. It was cost effective and still is if you are not concerned with the ethical side of things. I know many others who still use both as routine.
I am much happier having reduced our use over last few years.

sheep breeder · Nov 12, 2020

Anymulewilldo said:
Intra muscular job for Betamox.

But where on the lamb for site, aware of intra. Just wondering

Spuddler · Nov 12, 2020

Hardly use any AB indoors
Ewe and lambs always go into a clean pen and use plenty of straw.

Anymulewilldo · Nov 12, 2020

sheep breeder said:
But where on the lamb for site, aware of intra. Just wondering

Ahh, sorry. We go neck when we need to jab them. If it’s a scrawny one has too be the back leg.

hubbahubba · Nov 12, 2020

Ysgythan said:
no. Look up Pruex.

I looked at using pruex last year but thought there was just as many using it with no improvement as there was people raving about it so decided againt it. Is that still the case or mostly good results?

Ysgythan · Nov 12, 2020

hubbahubba said:
I looked at using pruex last year but thought there was just as many using it with no improvement as there was people raving about it so decided againt it. Is that still the case or mostly good results?

there’a a few things you can do if you look up their blog which involves buying nothing and will improve the job, but if you buy the stuff and don’t use those protocols you’re pissing in the wind in my view.

I would say the two things everybody could do tomorrow to cut down infection is to lift any licks up off the ground so they don’t sh!t in them and keep the water clean.

rancher · Nov 12, 2020

Adequate protein for three weeks before lambing to ensure plentiful supply of colostrum and clean individual pens for ewes after lambing and you won't need ABs . We use Clorohexathane on the navels as well and believe it to be better than iodine.

JSmith · Nov 12, 2020

Anymulewilldo said:
Anyone who tells you they have never lost a lamb, had a bit of watery mouth or a case of joint ill is talking crap... even those in the top of the heap get it occasionally. We get a few watery mouthed triplets every now and then. But never enough to merit blanket treatment.

They don’t die do they

spin cycle · Nov 12, 2020

i use spectam based on risk.....if the lambs strong + ewe got milk there's no real need is there .......colostruming lambs can be a time saver when busy as you know that lamb has some 'steam' to get up get going.... rancher makes a good point re protein

i reckon dedicated lambing pens are terrible idea....they get used over and over again.....take a lot of work to keep clean....the more convinient ones also get used more.....i pen them up in the section where they lamb...plenty fresh straw and iodine navels

ollie989898 · Nov 12, 2020

I think the OP has struck upon an issue which is going to force the hand of indoor/intensive livestock systems in the years ahead. It is obvious that antibiotics are probably past their zenith now, and that other methods and ideas will come to the fore. The emphasis will shift toward management, hygiene and maybe probiotics?

I do like the increased talk of a tie in between livestock operators and big arable enterprises. I see it as hand and glove and win-win-win for soil, stock and people alike.

Gulli · Nov 12, 2020

Northern territory said:
How does everyone monitor adequate colostrum. Know if one big setup in Hampshire used to tube every lamb.

I lambed at a place in Scotland that lambed everything indoors, housed in individual pens (I think about 100 penned up at any one time) every lamb got a stomach tube of colostrum at birth, think the farmer got it from a dairy. Was a very good system tbh, I did the day shift he did the evening and checked a couple of times at night, lost 2 lambs in the shed in the 4/5 weeks I was there.
It was nice weather which I think helped but he had space if it was too wet to turn out.

Are the days of lambing inside numbered?

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