Are the days of lambing inside numbered?

[andybk]

minimal AB use here in lambing shed , every lambing pen cleaned down between new entrants and disinfected ,all individual bedding goes straight in the dumper , we stagger lambing so pressure is off , then out asap ,
totally agree with @Tim W post above regard integration with arable units , we do this to some degree and try and lamb when we have access to their ground so lambs arnt hammered with issues requiring medication , they then come back on our own ground when strong enough to deal with issues .

 

[Mc115reed]

The target I think for losses before turnout is less than 7% and I’m sure the national average losses until 8 weeks is nearer 14%.

I’m not saying people are being dishonest but until you record what you actually lose they’re easily forgotten. Simplest way is to check what you scanned then look at how many lambs you sold/retained in any given season, then you can start to work out where they all went.

I couldn’t think of anything worse than recording where they all go [emoji85] sounds depressing to me... in a corn bag and carry on if you ask me.. it’s how many the foxes take I wouldn’t mind knowing

 

[Farmer Keith]

Good luck with that attitude, crucial part of the job, how can you improve if you don’t know where to focus.

 

[Gulli]

Two dead lmbs in a season, that amazing,

I assume this was aimed at my post.
Not actually what I said, but thanks, I worked my f**king rubbish off for a month

 

[neilo]

I would suggest there's a massive difference with pathogen build up between flocks, depending on numbers of ewes lambing, and on the labour involved. It's easy to clean and disinfect each pen if you are lambing 20 ewes, or if you have 7 members of staff lambing 1500, not so easy when 1 person is trying to do 800 on their tod. Maybe it's the '800 with one man' indoor flocks who's time is running out?

Up until this year, I have lambed a bunch of earlies in December, who have then stayed in that same shed. Once they are weaned, the shed is cleaned out, before the next lot come in to lamb in March. There's never been much of an issue with any disease in that December bunch, but huge problems in the March lambers, presumably from pathogens building up, even when it's cleaned out as thoroughly as you can with a partly stone walled shed.
I'm looking forward to just having one, larger batch in at the end of February this year, for that reason, and intend using Pruex just to keep it right. The April lambing flock will then be outside, as usual. Hopefully ab usage will be even lower this year.

 

[Tim W]

It will be interesting to see how ELMS fits in, but certainly around me there is still fundamental oposition to ''bothering having those damn sheep anywhere near our beautiful arable fields''. one neigbour is managing to do a mutual root growing thing, but my sheep roots got blamed for the flea beetle killing off the rape last year

Things that will encouraged in the future include
1) reduction in use of pesticides/herbicides
2) reduction of artificial fertilizer use
3) use of grass leys to mitigate errosion,soil degredation, flooding & to temporarily lock up Carbon
Landowners will want animals on their land to facilitate this....and if they are taking public money of any sort they will be required to use graziers that keep records that show they are trying to reduce things like routine AB/anthelmintic use and improve welfare outcomes. This will all provide data that can be used to show that UK produce is grown to high standards when we are building"Brand Britain" and looking for export markets

 

[Farmer Keith]

I would suggest there's a massive difference with pathogen build up between flocks, depending on numbers of ewes lambing, and on the labour involved. It's easy to clean and disinfect each pen if you are lambing 20 ewes, or if you have 7 members of staff lambing 1500, not so easy when 1 person is trying to do 800 on their tod. Maybe it's the '800 with one man' indoor flocks who's time is running out?

Theyre probably more profitable than the guy lambing 1500 with 7 on the payroll though, it’s a delicate balance trying to get the best of all worlds.

 

[hally]

The 1500 guy paying 5 students at £1000 per lambing (assuming 2 staff normally, ) will only have to save 60 lambs to pay for the staff and will have a pretty ”leisurely “ lambing time. This may be possible in bad weather conditions surely? Attention to detail, tagging recording done etc. Not advocating either way just saying there is all ways of costing sheep performance. 1500 ewes scanned at 150% is a different lambing to 1500 scanning 220%.

 

[Northern territory]

Things that will encouraged in the future include
1) reduction in use of pesticides/herbicides
2) reduction of artificial fertilizer use
3) use of grass leys to mitigate errosion,soil degredation, flooding & to temporarily lock up Carbon
Landowners will want animals on their land to facilitate this....and if they are taking public money of any sort they will be required to use graziers that keep records that show they are trying to reduce things like routine AB/anthelmintic use and improve welfare outcomes. This will all provide data that can be used to show that UK produce is grown to high standards when we are building"Brand Britain" and looking for export markets

All this is true but how many of these pastures Will be available to graze at the right time of year. Most of the proposed grass options have fairly specific rules regarding grazing.

 

[Tim W]

All this is true but how many of these pastures Will be available to graze at the right time of year. Most of the proposed grass options have fairly specific rules regarding grazing.

The pressure to change will not just come from land linked dole payments
It will also come from consumers who want their food produced to their liking/standards
Changes often come about through second hand influences ----If there are regulations that ban/limit certain uses for certain herbicides then other options for weed control will be needed which could include longer term leys?

 

[Northern territory]

The pressure to change will not just come from land linked dole payments
It will also come from consumers who want their food produced to their liking/standards
Changes often come about through second hand influences ----If there are regulations that ban/limit certain uses for certain herbicides then other options for weed control will be needed which could include longer term leys?

Yep you are right. Trouble with consumers Is will they pay a premium for it. Organic wheat isn’t going to feed a nation. Do you envisage everything will need to be electric, can’t see a lot of arable farms wanting to install fencing and water.

 

[Optimus]

We indoor lamb and won't be changing anytime soon.all pens limed before next ewe is in even when its hectic.2/3 students around that pretty much do it all.check every single lamb has fed before I go to bed.

Not seen watery mouth for a while.an few cases of joint ill.

Most our deaths in the shed are lambing issues or ewes laying on them.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

The pressure to change will not just come from land linked dole payments
It will also come from consumers who want their food produced to their liking/standards
Changes often come about through second hand influences ----If there are regulations that ban/limit certain uses for certain herbicides then other options for weed control will be needed which could include longer term leys?

I fear that is wishful thinking.

One must always remember that what people say they want and what they want in practice, is somewhat different.

I expect the home market will fracture as the ever higher standards [and the costs associated with them] will leave a large space for conventional produce which will always have a buyer at a more competitive price.

 

[Moors Lad]

I fear that is wishful thinking.

One must always remember that what people say they want and what they want in practice, is somewhat different.

I expect the home market will fracture as the ever higher standards [and the costs associated with them] will leave a large space for conventional produce which will always have a buyer at a more competitive price

Yes, perceived public opinion/trendy journalism weigh on politicians who then tie our hands very firmly behind our backs and then expect us to compete ....
It`s a harsh fact that the people who have the money and/or are prepared to pay for higher standards are in a true minority.

 

[tr250]

Anyone who tells you they have never lost a lamb, had a bit of watery mouth or a case of joint ill is talking crap... even those in the top of the heap get it occasionally. We get a few watery mouthed triplets every now and then. But never enough to merit blanket treatment.

We think we do the job reasonably well and loose plenty but someone local to us take it to the next level but still loose some

 

[Anymulewilldo]

We think we do the job reasonably well and loose plenty but someone local to us take it to the next level but still loose some

I heard a good one last year at the market. I was selling fat hoggs in mid April and brother rang too say he’d had a big fat texel drop a pair of dead lambs. Not much milk, with the cull trade did he try too adopt on or turf it out for feeding? I advised and hung up. Was talking about it with mates in canteen and I overheard the next table saying that “oh they never count those that come out dead, just the ones that die between birth and turnout” Eh? Excuse me but they are still dead lambs! Nothing we can do about it if they come out dead! Or those ones that come out with a heartbeat but no matter what you do or how much stimulant spray you use you just can’t get them too breath! They count too!

I suppose it makes people feel better about it, but I see no sense in hiding from it!

 

[tr250]

I heard a good one last year at the market. I was selling fat hoggs in mid April and brother rang too say he’d had a big fat texel drop a pair of dead lambs. Not much milk, with the cull trade did he try too adopt on or turf it out for feeding? I advised and hung up. Was talking about it with mates in canteen and I overheard the next table saying that “oh they never count those that come out dead, just the ones that die between birth and turnout” Eh? Excuse me but they are still dead lambs! Nothing we can do about it if they come out dead! Or those ones that come out with a heartbeat but no matter what you do or how much stimulant spray you use you just can’t get them too breath! They count too!

I suppose it makes people feel better about it, but I see no sense in hiding from it!

We do it from lambs scanned to sold fat.

 

[Anymulewilldo]

We do it from lambs scanned to sold fat.

Same. And there is always a discrepancy between lambs missing and recorded deaths?? I accept the fox or badger beat me too the odd one before I find it. Usually see the back bone though. Makes you wonder how many the 2 legged vermin take! I know they get the odd one! But catching them and proving it is a whole new kettle of fish!

 

[tr250]

Same. And there is always a discrepancy between lambs missing and recorded deaths?? I accept the fox or badger beat me too the odd one before I find it. Usually see the back bone though. Makes you wonder how many the 2 legged vermin take! I know they get the odd one! But catching them and proving it is a whole new kettle of fish!

Yes plenty of that goes on round here

 

[Tim W]

Yep you are right. Trouble with consumers Is will they pay a premium for it. Organic wheat isn’t going to feed a nation. Do you envisage everything will need to be electric, can’t see a lot of arable farms wanting to install fencing and water.

Arable farmers in general may not want to have anything to do with stock
Lots of electric put up by share farming young stockmen & women