wellingtonfarmer
Member
- Location
- Herefordshire
In your opinion there is no problem with it.
I bet a higher % of the cows shown in that programme end up on the food chain than a pheasants get eaten on any size shoot.
Panorama
- Thread starter Adeptandy
- Start date
I bet a higher % of the cows shown in that programme end up on the food chain than a pheasants get eaten on any size shoot.
- Location
- Hereford
Sounds like we will have to agree to disagree on this one .
....on the subject of lost pheasants I am constantly amazed how some of the dogs will retrieve and where from .... whether one agrees or not it is an amazing skill to work a dog like that.
Apart from Kelvin's play farm !
toquark
Member
Given a pheasant lives an entirely free range life and stands at least a 60% of surviving the shooting season, I think I know which I'd rather be.
The problem is, that however 'well' you treat the animals whilst they are in your care, they are still slaughtered once their useful life is up, or for meat.
I think most people understand that this is ingrained in our culture and that farmers are responding to market forces, but there is also a growing realisation, with all the new data we have on animal sentience, that a cow for instance, is no different to a dog or a cat, in terms of being able to feel pain, make social connections etc. Our understanding of our relationship to animals is changing.
Yes this panorama video will cause some to become vegan from the perspective of animal cruelty. But there is a changing mindset that means that more are going plant based, even if there are 'higher welfare' options. I'm afraid the industry will continue to decline and you really need to get out there and diversify (which I know is easier said than done, and I'm sorry that that is the case).
I am speaking as a non farmer and a vegan, but with some compassion for the situation you find yourselves in and a real interest in how we manage the land and the environment (and what solutions there may be). I specifically looked for this forum because I wanted to see what farmers were saying about the program, for balance (I can't quite bear to watch it myself yet. I'm quite good at sectioning things out but I think that's going to hit hard).
I don't think anyone is going to think that these practises happen in every farm, but the fact that they happen at all will, for sure, make people stop and think.
- Location
- North Somerset.
Presumably Red Tractor were asked to comment on the film and on the basis of the evidence immediately withdrew their accreditation so he will be unable to sell his milk which will go down the drain until the cows are dried off or sold and the perpetrators will be looking for another job anyway.
Dairy farmers, doesn’t matter how short of labour you are beware anyone looking for work who may or may not be Eastern European but previously worked in Wales.
Dairy farmers, doesn’t matter how short of labour you are beware anyone looking for work who may or may not be Eastern European but previously worked in Wales.
toquark
Member
The trouble with places like Rainton (the Ethical Dairy) is is that they will only ever serve to fill a niche market. They can never supply the volume sector which is where 95% of the population get their dairy produce from.
As others have stated, persistently low prices over decades have led to the elimination of the smaller producer in favour of large employed-labour dependent units who take on idiots like those shown on Panorama. Also worth mentioning the majority of these units employ staff from overseas who many enter the job with a very different attitude to animal welfare.
Quite simply, someone has to pay for the cheap food, and in the case of dairying, its the farmer and sadly his cows.
As others have stated, persistently low prices over decades have led to the elimination of the smaller producer in favour of large employed-labour dependent units who take on idiots like those shown on Panorama. Also worth mentioning the majority of these units employ staff from overseas who many enter the job with a very different attitude to animal welfare.
Quite simply, someone has to pay for the cheap food, and in the case of dairying, its the farmer and sadly his cows.
I used to teach EFL and some of those in that class were working in farming and they had qualifications up to their elbows and years of experience and skills and they were so intelligent. No doubt that they were an asset where they were working and extremely good value for money.
There are good and bad eggs from all places and races. Let's not lump them together. Unless you by default of being a farmer are also guilty by association.
There are good and bad eggs from all places and races. Let's not lump them together. Unless you by default of being a farmer are also guilty by association.
And when I think on the hours they worked and how they somehow managed to get to my class and try to learn English so they could integrate better. Seriously hard working. What an exhausting life.
lloyd
Member
- Location
- Herefordshire
Before you all say the dairy industry is doomed
have you all tried the alternatives.
My wife is lactose intolerant and the other
options are disgusting .Probably the only time
coronavirus can make something taste better.
have you all tried the alternatives.
My wife is lactose intolerant and the other
options are disgusting .Probably the only time
coronavirus can make something taste better.
- Location
- Ceredigion
Exactly, the part about leaving calves on cows was ridiculous and should be called out as such , but I suppose if someone has never been involved with livestock they may not understandGot to love this forum, lets all pull each other apart. Fair bit of over reaction on all sides.
Last edited:
toquark
Member
Its nothing to do with race. Its to do with values.
It may be an uncomfortable truth, but to expect people who come from parts of the world where animal welfare standards are non existent to enter a husbandry job with the same attitudes and work to the same standards as ourselves is naive to say the least. That's not to say they can't be trained, but you must accept that in many cases, you are starting from a very different baseline with a lot of these guys.
To be fair, there are plenty of pig ignorant natives, seen plenty of those too. But the cultural and language divide can be an issue on these big places. 1000 cow herd near here with 11 staff, only 2 speak english. The ability of the farmer or manager to effectively reprimand bad behaviour is seriously compromised in this situation.
This. As soon as I heard " Large dairy farm ", and guessed foreign staff. I thought.........say no more.
Did we have this 50 years ago with small family farms ?
I do recall the RSPCA going in to sort out an " Animal Belsen " in West Wales 35 years ago, but that was an exception.
No good raising the milk price now, the industry has shed the cream.
so pete what do you do
sheep farmer
in the area is mean as mouse muck
sheep always half starved , a disgrace , have told him a few times to square them up
but just get abuse , f off nowt to do with you , so what do you do
- Location
- Shropshire
I borrowed a hip hoist once. Never again. Evil contraption.
The vets have a harness that I’ve borrowed that is much better.
Being a suckler herd, having a cow down is rare (perhaps one in last 5 years).
We tend to find that it’s old suckler cows that go down so keep a younger herd
I've tried different plant milks and am perfectly happy with unsweetened soy, though good coffee is better black anyway.
The plant based cheese industry obviously is still in development though. I think we should be exploring Lupin based alternatives in this country, as they are in Germany.
Either way, I personally don't think it's morally defensible to kill a sentient animal just for taste. Though I recognise that not everyone makes that connection.
The plant based cheese industry obviously is still in development though. I think we should be exploring Lupin based alternatives in this country, as they are in Germany.
Either way, I personally don't think it's morally defensible to kill a sentient animal just for taste. Though I recognise that not everyone makes that connection.
It's not the race that's the issue. It's that you are offering such a low wage that you only get those from those countries that are desperate for the job. So you aren't getting the best that those countries have to offer.
As I said earlier, I had people learning EFL from countries like Latvia etc who were incredibly hard working and intelligent and who worked in farming. One of them straight up could have been a Farmer himself, with the right set of circumstances.
As I said earlier, I had people learning EFL from countries like Latvia etc who were incredibly hard working and intelligent and who worked in farming. One of them straight up could have been a Farmer himself, with the right set of circumstances.
Expanded and improved Sustainable Farming Incentive offer for farmers published
Expanded Sustainable Farming Incentive offer from July will give the sector a clear path forward and boost farm business resilience.
From: Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs and The Rt Hon Sir Mark Spencer MP Published21 May 2024
Full details of the expanded and improved Sustainable Farming Incentive (SFI) offer available to farmers from July have been published by the...
From: Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs and The Rt Hon Sir Mark Spencer MP Published21 May 2024
Full details of the expanded and improved Sustainable Farming Incentive (SFI) offer available to farmers from July have been published by the...