Do we live in a civilised world ?

betweenthelines · Feb 25, 2022

In the minds of the Russians, they are only taking back that which should be under their control anyway.

Why aren't Wales, Scotland and the island of Ireland totally independent? Because we, the English regard them as "ours"

Russia tries to regain control over a neighbouring state-we went to war over some poor sheep grazing on the other side of the World!

teslacoils · Feb 25, 2022

A civilised world would make sure the serious diplomacy began before the bodies started piling up.

Treg · Feb 25, 2022

betweenthelines said:
In the minds of the Russians, they are only taking back that which should be under their control anyway.

Why aren't Wales, Scotland and the island of Ireland totally independent? Because we, the English regard them as "ours"

Russia tries to regain control over a neighbouring state-we went to war over some poor sheep grazing on the other side of the World!

Ah hum.. you missed one & I can tell you why because we got written out of your history, why because we were the only Celtic Nation to get a army to London also the largest ground battle in the British Isles modern history was thought here....you lost but boy did we pay for it.

robs1 · Feb 25, 2022

betweenthelines said:
In the minds of the Russians, they are only taking back that which should be under their control anyway.

Why aren't Wales, Scotland and the island of Ireland totally independent? Because we, the English regard them as "ours"

Russia tries to regain control over a neighbouring state-we went to war over some poor sheep grazing on the other side of the World!

Incase you missed it scotland had a FREE vote and decided to stay in the uk. Just a tad different from Putin

jendan · Feb 25, 2022

Treg said:
Ah hum.. you missed one & I can tell you why because we got written out of your history, why because we were the only Celtic Nation to get a army to London also the largest ground battle in the British Isles modern history was thought here....you lost but boy did we pay for it.

Who was An Gof...................apart from him being a contributor on this forum?

Treg · Feb 25, 2022

jendan said:
Who was An Gof...................apart from him being a contributor on this forum?

An Gof was a Black Smith from West Cornwall who helped raised a army of 20000 Cornishman and matched to London .
Had a battle at Black Heath and lost to the English regular army, An Gof was captured & hung, drawn & quartered at the Senitaph ( spelt wrong? ) then his head put on a spike .

Danllan · Feb 25, 2022

Treg said:
An Gof was a Black Smith from West Cornwall who helped raised a army of 20000 Cornishman and matched to London .
Had a battle at Black Heath and lost to the English regular army, An Gof was captured & hung, drawn & quartered at the Senitaph ( spelt wrong? ) then his head put on a spike .

Bad move then...

jendan · Feb 25, 2022

Treg said:
An Gof was a Black Smith from West Cornwall who helped raised a army of 20000 Cornishman and matched to London .
Had a battle at Black Heath and lost to the English regular army, An Gof was captured & hung, drawn & quartered at the Senitaph ( spelt wrong? ) then his head put on a spike .

Bloody hell,i didnt know he came to such a gruesome end. My ancestors were some of the Border Reivers and raided the gaols to get their kins folk out.

Danllan · Feb 25, 2022

Treg said:
Putins forces deliberately targeting civilians over night .
Are we really going to stand back and watch?
If women and children were being attacked near by and you had the strength to stop it , surely you would?
In a civilised world we would not just sit and watch.
Putin would wet his pants if a western country got involved & we know he fears NATO.

I can't disagree with any of that, but I don't like it; the truly stupid thing is that this could have been prevented very easily by just having the no-fly-zone.

As is, Ukraine is putting up a much stronger resistance than Putin anticipated; the more they can hold on, the harder it gets for Putin.

US int' is claiming that Russian momentum has been lost; of course that may be wishful thinking and mere propaganda, but... they have been very open regarding int' so far, and it's all been pukka.

If so, and though I'm disgusted we haven't done more, it means there is a chance for us - meaning the West - to get a hell of a lot more stuff into Ukraine.

A long time ago our own Churchill said that if given the tools we'd finish the job, I think Ukraine has the same attitude, and will, to carry that out.

Treg · Feb 25, 2022

Danllan said:
I can't disagree with any of that, but I don't like it; the truly stupid thing is that this could have been prevented very easily by just having the no-fly-zone.

As is, Ukraine is putting up a much stronger resistance than Putin anticipated; the more they can hold on, the harder it gets for Putin.

US int' is claiming that Russian momentum has been lost; of course that may be wishful thinking and mere propaganda, but... they have been very open regarding int' so far, and it's all been pukka.

If so, and though I'm disgusted we haven't done more, it means there is a chance for us - meaning the West - to get a hell of a lot more stuff into Ukraine.

A long time ago our own Churchill said that if given the tools we'd finish the job, I think Ukraine has the same attitude, and will, to carry that out.

Haha my dad said Churchills quote to me this afternoon

This still could go really bad for Putin, not just in Ukraine but at home .

Treg · Feb 25, 2022

Danllan said:
Bad move then...

Yes can't say it went well but it was the start of the " Cornish Rebellions "
2021 was the first year that some of the oldest British literature (written in Cornish) was brought together in one place in Cornwall, strangely usually kept separately in the museums of London/ Edinburgh & Cardiff, none being kept in Cornwall and only brought here on loan

Treg · Feb 25, 2022

jendan said:
Bloody hell,i didnt know he came to such a gruesome end. My ancestors were some of the Border Reivers and raided the gaols to get their kins folk out.

The British Isles as a whole has got a fantastic history, it's a shame it's not taught more in schools.

Ranger Security Solutions · Feb 25, 2022

betweenthelines said:
Why aren't Wales, Scotland and the island of Ireland totally independent? Because we, the English regard them as "ours"

You missed out Yorkshire

... and no "we" don't.

We did, in times gone by, but that is no longer the case. The constituent nations are members of the Union by popular consent - and referendums have taken place over the years to determine this.

Obviously there are factions of all political and ideological persuasions, but they are in a minority.

Ranger Security Solutions · Feb 25, 2022

Treg said:
Ah hum.. you missed one & I can tell you why because we got written out of your history, why because we were the only Celtic Nation to get a army to London also the largest ground battle in the British Isles modern history was thought here....you lost but boy did we pay for it.

Wasn't that the Battle of Towton? With an estimated 50-60,000 soldiers taking part?

Farfrae · Feb 25, 2022

Treg said:
Putins forces deliberately targeting civilians over night .
Are we really going to stand back and watch?
If women and children were being attacked near by and you had the strength to stop it , surely you would?
In a civilised world we would not just sit and watch.
Putin would wet his pants if a western country got involved & we know he fears NATO.

I love the way people just pick one example of man's inhumanity whilst ignoring all the others. People soon forget it seems.

In 1991, George Busht launched a war on Iraq and it was extremely brutal. Under Bush’s leadership, the US military deliberately targeted civilian infrastructure, devastating the country.

Just weeks after the end of the war, the United Nations published a survey analyzing the civilian damage done by US bombing. The UN found that Iraq was “near apocalyptic,” that it had been bombed back “to a pre-industrial age,” and that the country was on the verge of an “epidemic and famine.”

The US military also used depleted uranium weapons in Iraq, leading to birth defects, high cancer rates, and environmental damage that Iraqis are still suffering from to this day.

Even the Washington Post, which supported the war, acknowledged four months after it that the US and its allies “sought to achieve some of their military objectives in the Persian Gulf war by disabling Iraqi society at large,” and the US “deliberately did great harm to Iraq’s ability to support itself as an industrial society.”

robs1 · Feb 25, 2022

Farfrae said:
I love the way people just pick one example of man's inhumanity whilst ignoring all the others. People soon forget it seems.

In 1991, George Busht launched a war on Iraq and it was extremely brutal. Under Bush’s leadership, the US military deliberately targeted civilian infrastructure, devastating the country.

Just weeks after the end of the war, the United Nations published a survey analyzing the civilian damage done by US bombing. The UN found that Iraq was “near apocalyptic,” that it had been bombed back “to a pre-industrial age,” and that the country was on the verge of an “epidemic and famine.”

The US military also used depleted uranium weapons in Iraq, leading to birth defects, high cancer rates, and environmental damage that Iraqis are still suffering from to this day.

Even the Washington Post, which supported the war, acknowledged four months after it that the US and its allies “sought to achieve some of their military objectives in the Persian Gulf war by disabling Iraqi society at large,” and the US “deliberately did great harm to Iraq’s ability to support itself as an industrial society.”

Most wars cause damage and deaths ti civilians and infrastructure. While many countries have issues with certain sections of society Russia is amongst the very worse and in a different league to any western country, I wonder how the russian police will deal with those protesting about the invasion. If Russia is so great I wonder why people dont move there en mass

unlacedgecko · Feb 25, 2022

robs1 said:
Most wars cause damage and deaths ti civilians and infrastructure. While many countries have issues with certain sections of society Russia is amongst the very worse and in a different league to any western country, I wonder how the russian police will deal with those protesting about the invasion. If Russia is so great I wonder why people dont move there en mass

True Scotsman fallacy

Treg · Feb 25, 2022

Ranger Security Solutions said:
Wasn't that the Battle of Towton? With an estimated 50-60,000 soldiers taking part?

A large battle but not quite modern as in using munitions.

wanton dwarf · Feb 25, 2022

robs1 said:
Most wars cause damage and deaths ti civilians and infrastructure. While many countries have issues with certain sections of society Russia is amongst the very worse and in a different league to any western country, I wonder how the russian police will deal with those protesting about the invasion. If Russia is so great I wonder why people dont move there en mass

Six of one and half a dozen of the other.

The only constant fact is the poor get killed by the rich in wars.

unlacedgecko · Feb 25, 2022

wanton dwarf said:
Six of one and half a dozen of the other.

The only constant fact is the poor get killed by the rich in wars.

The poor kill each other for the profit of the rich.

Much like young men killing each other for the ego of old men.

Do we live in a civilised world ?

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