Allied Mills screwing farmers over with dodgy claims?

robs1 · Oct 3, 2020

DrWazzock said:
So that’s about £12 per ton knock off before drying charges. Even here on 200 acres that’s at least £5000 a year. No, I’ll stick with my dryer and independence.

I think in total last harvest was around 14 pounds a tonne including any drying that was required, that covers all the maintenance, repairs and upgrades to the store, this year new intake for the original drier which was also replaced, new laboratory and offices were added a couple of years ago at no other cost to any member above the annual.charge, also all testing and FA costs are covered as is cleaning of the store, record keeping, insurance including bad debt insurance, haulage to and from the store also all accounting costs.
Each to their own but while it looks a fair cost on paper if we costed it all out it's pretty good value.
The added value can cover a fair bit of it too, last year our gleam three loads didnt get an extra couple of quid for milling (I assume biscuit) the same with oats some get extra depending on end use, either way there is no hastle to me over rejections for any reason. If your a thousand acre farmer then perhaps but for us the grain is a by product in many ways to the straw which is why we grow it

ajd132 · Oct 3, 2020

robs1 said:
I think in total last harvest was around 14 pounds a tonne including any drying that was required, that covers all the maintenance, repairs and upgrades to the store, this year new intake for the original drier which was also replaced, new laboratory and offices were added a couple of years ago at no other cost to any member above the annual.charge, also all testing and FA costs are covered as is cleaning of the store, record keeping, insurance including bad debt insurance, haulage to and from the store also all accounting costs.
Each to their own but while it looks a fair cost on paper if we costed it all out it's pretty good value.
The added value can cover a fair bit of it too, last year our gleam three loads didnt get an extra couple of quid for milling (I assume biscuit) the same with oats some get extra depending on end use, either way there is no hastle to me over rejections for any reason. If your a thousand acre farmer then perhaps but for us the grain is a by product in many ways to the straw which is why we grow it

You also aren’t farming and cropping based around grain storage, can be as flexible as you want with what crops you grow. The uplift in value on really bad quality wet years with cheap drying and blending etc can pay for a lot of easy years when the cost may seem high.

Clive · Oct 3, 2020

Feldspar said:
So what do you do for the grain you sell? Do you have an automated sampling machine?

we have test equipment the same as many intakes tested and calibrated on the same network for moisture, proteins, oils, nitrogen and bushel weight - its not cheap but is a good investment imo

we test outloads and attach a outload test and wieghbridge certification to the passports - it states “notify of any difference BEFORE tipping or you accept this analysis “

its rare an intake disagrees, if they do we ask for the load to be returned and independently tested

maybe simply making them aware we are testing with ring calibrated equipment reduces any temptation to try it on as they know they will get a fight ?

Spencer · Oct 3, 2020

I had a a few loads fail for malt couple of years ago.. said fair enough so sold as feed. Wagons collected, then get email following day to say they were low germination and were being downgraded for feed. Rang up merchant, to say I had sold them as feed so why was I getting deduction for low germ on feed barley price?? Said bring it back.. couldn’t as all three wagons had tipped! All gone for malt onto a boat, wagon driver was back next day and said no problems

‍♂!

An Gof · Oct 3, 2020

homefarm said:
r
Are you claiming the load can be resampled?

I my experience there is only one sample taken from the load and that is then split and tested independently.

Can a new sample be taken from the returned load by an independent person for testing or is it only the sample Ollie picked up from the buyer that is tested.

A new test from independent sample from the load is a lot fairer than retesting their sample but I am not sure it is an option.

Yes, it is an option and provided for in the contract. But it’s the nuclear button that comes at some considerable risk/cost.
You have to find an approved Independant sampler get them to the intake and take the sample. The clock is running all the time and the costs are likely to be eye watering. You really have to be sure of your case. Likewise if the intake is pulling a fast one then they will be the one picking up all the costs. Do ya feel lucky punk?

Steevo · Oct 3, 2020

Just to add some balance.....I’m sure there are times when genuine mistakes happen and there are hiccups in communication.

Steevo · Oct 3, 2020

I do think it is poor that wagons tip through the hatch at mills over the course of an hour or so rather than dumped in a pit in one go. It would speed the whole chain up no end, stop delays and make everything much more efficient.

Brisel · Oct 3, 2020

Steevo said:
I do think it is poor that wagons tip through the hatch at mills over the course of an hour or so rather than dumped in a pit in one go. It would speed the whole chain up no end, stop delays and make everything much more efficient.

I agree. They won’t spend on the infrastructure and don’t want to risk any dust. Some won’t even let the drivers sweep out on site thanks to their H&S anoraks

That means that the farmer doesn’t get all his load tipped and paid for.

glasshouse · Oct 3, 2020

Feldspar said:
This video appeared on Twitter today:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1311646740769107969
.

If this account is accurate, this is so damaging to the trust that farmers place in the end user to act as an honest judge of the delivered produce. The problem is that they are not an impartial judge insofar as they stand to lose or benefit depending on their assessment of the sample.

The results of the mycotoxin test are outstanding, but that's really not the point. The point is they said the load had been rejected for ergot when they now accept there wasn't any ergot in it. Unless there is some credible refutation of this claim forthcoming, a reasonable conclusion is one of dishonesty. I will wait until for the fullness of time to reveal all the relevant facts, but this deeply troubles me.

If he is high up in thr nfu, he needs to get something done about it.
Mills should be charged for rejecting a load.

ajd132 · Oct 3, 2020

Steevo said:
Just to add some balance.....I’m sure there are times when genuine mistakes happen and there are hiccups in communication.

And not every rejected load is a miscarriage of justice against the farmer either. It does go both ways.

homefarm · Oct 3, 2020

An Gof said:
Yes, it is an option and provided for in the contract. But it’s the nuclear button that comes at some considerable risk/cost.
You have to find an approved Independant sampler get them to the intake and take the sample. The clock is running all the time and the costs are likely to be eye watering. You really have to be sure of your case. Likewise if the intake is pulling a fast one then they will be the one picking up all the costs. Do ya feel lucky punk?

Does this have to happen at the intake on the buyers premises?

Is there an option to deliver to independent site for independent test?
If not as you say it is not really a practical choice and totally in the buyers favour.

Re testing the buyers sample is most likely to have a similar result but a new sample might make them at least think twice.

Hedger · Oct 3, 2020

Brisel said:
Well done @agricontract for Tweeting this

Because I’m argumentative, here’s the mill’s position, though not in this case:

The mills book 10 loads a day because 1 or 2 won’t turn up because the farmer can’t load due to being away, broken down, shooting etc or the haulier has had a breakdown, traffic jam, was booked late or had a redirection on the previous load. When all 10 turn up they haven’t got room for it all so they reject a couple.

Is that right? No. Should the farmer or haulier or merchant pick up the tab? No. Should the mill have extra buffer storage? Yes, even if that means forging a relationship with a local farmer or store who could fill a gap at short notice or take in an excess load, where building more bins on site isn’t an option.

I see your point but of the mills I cover we don't overbook on any day and would rather say on a Wednesday PM say we need "X amount more to cover weekend production" so then add a few more loads for the Thurs and Fri, this is possible by the relationships we've developed with merchants who are definitely (in most cases) trying their hardest for the farmer. I can quite honestly say a load has never been rejected because we're full, if this was likely to be the case then merchants would know the day before so lorries wouldn't be loaded. I appreciate from the farmers point of view being told your load won't be going tomorrow is annoying, it's better than what has possibly happened in the original post.

Similarly lab staff have no knowledge of supposed high priced contracts as even if a load is rejected for whatever reason then another load will be supplied in its place.

Also rejections are a hassle for everyone. We'd much rather loads arrived in spec or even if out of spec then a logical claim can be taken. We supply all merchants with our claim structures and will try find a job for all grades of wheat as this year more than others has produced a lot of very variable kit.

stroller · Oct 3, 2020

A few years ago when I grew milling oats three loads went in quick succession, the first and third were sold by Dalgety, the second by an independent merchant. I won't name him as he's still trading, the Dalgety loads were accepted no problems, the independent one had deductions for moisture and specific weight that I only found out about when I got the cheque. Seems like he just skimmed a bit off the top, if the loads hadn't gone in that order I wouldn't have questioned it.

Farmer T · Oct 3, 2020

glasshouse said:
If he is high up in thr nfu, he needs to get something done about it.
Mills should be charged for rejecting a load.

He’s on the NFU Crops board and Red Tractor board- so in a perfect position to do something.

In fact a few of the NFU Crops board have replied to the thread but irony of them doing nothing at all about this for the multiple years they’ve been receiving £5000 per year of farmer’s NFU subs is somewhat lost on them.

Honest john · Oct 3, 2020

Chae1 said:
Where do you stand if you get the loads tested independently and they are different to those from the mill?

Didn't think we had any comeback.

If mill is wrong they pay up. As they did on 3 loads.
But it’s not good if you have to challenge every load.
We need trust & honestly.

Honest john · Oct 3, 2020

teslacoils said:
You can ask for a retest. Goes to independent. Result stands. Of course, you can't prove that the retested sample came from your load.....

A retest normally goes Off to another mill for re test.
That’s different from an Independent lab.

Michael S · Oct 4, 2020

MrNoo said:
Did have one load rejected from Allied this year re protein, it was a Friday, all previous loads fine and since been fine. Stuff tested at 14.5-15.5% protein, tested by two merchants with pretty much the same result.
I found the maltsters were the worse, constant run around. Know of a chap locally who sent a large amount on the one day, due to send same again next day to be told in the morning the previous 8 loads had gone as feed instead of malt, he loaded and followed the lorry down as the drivers had said they had been tipping down the malt hatch. Anyway they ended up settling out of court and it was all hushed up to a degree. So it does happen

I have long said maltsters were put on this Earth to make millers look like reasonable people.

ollie989898 · Oct 4, 2020

I can recall only one load of grain that was delivered for me that was dodgy. Bugs were seen to be crawling up the side of the wagon. It was fudged and the person who loaded it must have known it. Rang and complained and it disappeared never to be seen again.

I used to deal with a good slew of farmers in the region and never had a single issue. Saved me from multiple fudge ups of my own making as they could do things like deliver stuff via tractor and trailer at short notice, or even on weekends. Since then I have recognised the importance of dealing locally and establishing a good working relationship with people, not just trying to screw the thumbscrews on prices perennially.

glasshouse · Oct 4, 2020

I was loading feed organic barley to go to a mill On a Saturday when i encountered a hot spot
I phoned the mill and confessed, they said keep loading and we eill discuss deductions from it on monday
I said no, i would Stop loading and rather redry it
After a twenty minute delay the boss rang me.
He said we need it, send it today, no defuctions as it is getting wetted anyway to go through the cuber today.
Probably saved me £500

ollie989898 · Oct 4, 2020

glasshouse said:
I was loading feed organic barley to go to a mill On a Saturday when i encountered a hot spot
I phoned the mill and confessed, they said keep loading and we eill discuss deductions from it on monday
I said no, i would Stop loading and rather redry it
After a twenty minute delay the boss rang me.
He said we need it, send it today, no defuctions as it is getting wetted anyway to go through the cuber today.
Probably saved me £500

It is true that a lot of animal feeds need sufficient moisture to cube properly. Of course, cake type concentrates will go mouldy if not consumed sufficiently quickly because they contain this moisture (and often oils) to help form the pellets.

Given that many feedstuffs are often so very dry (soya and maize, being imported are usually particularly dry) a bit of wheat or barley at 16 or even 18% can be helpful provided you know what is coming in beforehand.

Allied Mills screwing farmers over with dodgy claims?

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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