HS2

Cab-over Pete said:

It’s over 100m wide in many places and then there is the huge amount of land taken around it for environmental works and haul roads.

I read recently that there won’t even be a test train on a track for another 8 years and that testing will take two years.

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I can see how wide the devastation is from the vid. How many actual tracks will be laid and how wide will they be?

I read somewhere a while back that where the trains will be travelling at their fastest speeds the tracks have to be further apart otherwise the air interference buggers up the train coming the other way.

And also that any fences need to be a fair way from the tracks because anything too near will be sucked sideways by the trains at their fastest.

Sounds a bit far fetched, but that’s what I heard.

Apparently you all don't get it.
The whole project is about massively expanding freight capacity on the rail network as a whole, and ties together with the new Freeports. It has characterised as moving a few spivs from London to Birmingham ten minutes quicker, but it isn't about that at all. It is about freight capacity, and being able to get Chinese rubber dog turds to the market place much more efficiently.
I was talking to an HS2 supervisor who is lodging locally. They are well aware of the wasted time and money, and are very frustrated indeed by the Government and planning and environmental red tape and bureaucracy, that hinders their every waking move.
I give it to you, as it was given to me.

Did you give them a good hiding with a hazel whip?

I thought it was sold as a way of opening up the north.

It was. But that seems to have been forgotten.

It won’t benefit one single person who lives south of Birmingham, not even a few miles. Why would you drive north for 15 minutes to save 20 getting to London?

Oh and, by the way, it won’t actually go to London. It will drop you at a station from where you can catch a snail train.

If it isn’t the biggest waste of money and absolutely spectacular con to the whole of our country then I don’t know what is.

Why would anyone voluntarily go to either place anyway?

As has been said previously the key driver will be increasing freight to the North West, Currently all train movements Intercity, commuter and freight share the West Caost Main Line (WCML) from London to Birmingham, Manchester and to Scotland. There are no spare slots to increase freights also freight traffic has to be put into passing loops to give priority to the Intercity trains. The WCML has been at its max capacity for at least 20 years. They have tried to increased capacity but all it did was minimised delays due to normal purtubations. The majority of goods landed on the East coast container terminals., Felixtowe, Harwich, London Gateway all go to the Midlands and the North West via the WCML. The only way to increase rail freight traffic and provide a fast efficient passenger train service is to create a dedicated fast passenger train line and have the excisting WCML for passenger stopping commuter services and freight to use the current WCML. I have worked on numerous high speed train lines in europe acting as lenders consultat overseeing the develipment and construction of these lines. In Europe these lines are built to a "fixed price contract" using a PPP (Private Public Partnership) contract where a consortium design, builds and maintains th einfrastructure for the railway company. The construction is paid by payments over a 25 year period which is also based on availability of the infrastructure. The European consortiums of these High Speed Lines give fixed price contacts with fixed durations for delivery. If costs go up due to the desig and construction contarctors faults they take the risk.

Here in the UK these large contarcts are still predominately based on traditional type UK contracts do not give price nor schedule certainty to the government client. Also a key aspect of why UK major projects always seem to go over budget is that at sign off stage which is usually at outline design, the budget does not include inflation, So when a project gets to detailed deisgn and construction after planning approval it may be several years. So the outturn cocst which includes inflation will never match project sign off stage. Imagine just adding a 5% inflation on a ten year project what difference that will make comparing out turn costs to project sign off stage. In the last gew years we have seen materials costs increase by upto 20%.

Its actually quite disgusting the destruction of the landscape and the money that is getting wasted,

and then you think of Mr Price in Jail for moving some gravel..

What is going wrong in this country? our politicians are getting so far removed from reality...

I think we should all look at the first High Speed train line in the UK, London to the Channel Tunnel. At developmet stage and during construction the same complaints and arguments where being said about that line. The waste of money, the destruction of the environment, how the railway line would be and environmental disaster. Yet since being built none of that has actually occured. Yes during construction there will always be distruption, its exactly the same if you have an home extension built there is disruption during construction. Along the HS1 line London to Channel tunnel you would be hard to actually see any environmental issues today. During the design phase it was cited that Kent would be blighted due to the constructin of the line, it did not happen.

Cab-over Pete said:

I read somewhere a while back that where the trains will be travelling at their fastest speeds the tracks have to be further apart otherwise the air interference buggers up the train coming the other way.

And also that any fences need to be a fair way from the tracks because anything too near will be sucked sideways by the trains at their fastest.

Sounds a bit far fetched, but that’s what I heard.

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Remember the hilarity when travelling to Smithfield show and hearing a warning on the tannoy at some metropolitan platform warning that the next train wasn’t stopping so keep away from the platform edge to avoid being sucked off.

Foxhollow said:

As has been said previously the key driver will be increasing freight to the North West, Currently all train movements Intercity, commuter and freight share the West Caost Main Line (WCML) from London to Birmingham, Machester and to Scotland. There are no spare slots to increase freights also freight traffic has to be put into passing loops to give priority to the Intercity trains. The WCML has been at its max capacity for at least 20 years. They have tried to increased capacity but all it did was minimised delays due to normal purtubations. The majority of goods landed on the East coast container terminals., Felixtowe, Harwich, London Gateway all go to the Midlands and the North West. The only way to increase rail freight traffic and provide a fast efficient passenger train service is to create a dedicated fast passenger train line and have the excisting WCML for passenger stopping commuter services and freight to use the current WCML. I have worked on numerous high speed train lines in europe acting as lenders consultat overseeing the develipment and construction of these lines. In Europe these lines are built to a "fixed price contract" using a PPP (Private Public Partnership) contract where a consortium design, builds and maintains th einfrastructure for the railway company. The construction is paid by payments over a 25 year period which is also based on availability of the infrastructure. The European consortiums of these High Speed Lines give fixed price contacts with fixed durations for delivery. If costs go up due to the desig and construction contarctors faults they take the risk.

Here in the UK these large contarcts are still predominately based on traditional type UK contracts do not give price nor schedule certainty to the government client. Also a key aspect of why UK major projects always seem to go over budget is that at sign off stage which is usually at outline design, the budget does not include inflation, So when a project gets to detailed deisgn and construction after planning approval it may be several years. So the outturn cocst which includes inflation will never match project sign off stage. Imagine just adding a 5% inflation on a ten year project what difference that will make comparing out turn costs to project sign off stage. In the last gew years we have seen materials costs increase by upto 20%.

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So how is a line running from near London to Birmingham and maybe Manchester some day supposed to help freight coming in at Felixstowe/Harwich going to midlands or the north. Might as well just truck it straight to destination rather than treble handle.

I thought the environment do gooders are insane moaning about it but I do agree with them on this. I’ve never seen environmental damage to this scale what this government has approved is just appalling. Why is it so wide.

Can’t make an omelette without cracking a few eggs 🫣

sure what’s a few dozen billion when our kids and grandkids can pay for it

bobajob said:

Its actually quite disgusting the destruction of the landscape and the money that is getting wasted,

and then you think of Mr Price in Jail for moving some gravel..

What is going wrong in this country? our politicians are getting so far removed from reality...

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Westminster do as I say.

It was always the case that HS2 was corrupt - imagine all the property that was bought by HS2 for the Northern lines that are not going ahead.

How much of that property has now moved into the hands of the chosen few at a preferred price ?

The work is one thing, but there are massive amounts of money changing hands with property - which isn't necessarily even needed for HS2 or even on the line.

Cab-over Pete said:

I read somewhere a while back that where the trains will be travelling at their fastest speeds the tracks have to be further apart otherwise the air interference buggers up the train coming the other way.

And also that any fences need to be a fair way from the tracks because anything too near will be sucked sideways by the trains at their fastest.

Sounds a bit far fetched, but that’s what I heard.

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Haven’t a clue how accurate or not that is, but it’s hardly as if fast trains on HS2 is anything pioneering and new, so question is, how do they manage on other high speed rail lines

I have no clue if it’s accurate or not either, I suppose some of what we read or hear is hearsay.

I was not opposed to the idea of the line really. I have no idea if a new railway is needed or not, that’s for others to decide. I just thought it’s going to be built anyway whether we like it or not.

It’s the waste of money on the thing that really annoys me. Every single day you can see it. Which, whilst annoying in itself, is nothing when you talk to landowners affected. Some of them have been offered way below market value for their property, still haven’t received all the money due and have not been given any idea when they will receive it. And all the time they have the disruption and financial burden.

jimred said:

So how is a line running from near London to Birmingham and maybe Manchester some day supposed to help freight coming in at Felixstowe/Harwich going to midlands or the north. Might as well just truck it straight to destination rather than treble handle.

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At present there are 36 scheduled freight trains a day running in each direction from Felixstowe. Just over half of them, 19, use the cross-country link from Ipswich to Ely and Peterborough before heading to the north and midlands.The rest travel to London and then head up the main lines to the midlands and north. The freight comapnies want more train slots to take freight off the roads, there is a severe shortage of drivers, also would be more efficient. There is no spare capacity to increase rail freight traffic due to the West Coast Main Line being at capacity. Once HS2 is built it would then create so much more freight paths.

Foxhollow said:

I think we should all look at the first High Speed train line in the UK, London to the Channel Tunnel. At developmet stage and during construction the same complaints and arguments where being said about that line. The waste of money, the destruction of the environment, how the railway line would be and environmental disaster. Yet since being built none of that has actually occured. Yes during construction there will always be distruption, its exactly the same if you have an home extension built there is disruption during construction. Along the HS1 line London to Channel tunnel you would be hard to actually see any environmental issues today. During the design phase it was cited that Kent would be blighted due to the constructin of the line, it did not happen.

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Whilst that is largely true, the bigger issue is what has HS1 done for anybody ? Pushed the commuter belt further out, difficult to see any benefits in that unless you happen to be selling.
The biggest joke is that the Eurostar no longer stops at Ashford 'International', if you want to go to the continent you have to go up to St Pancras and wave at Ashford as you speed back through a couple of hours and a fair few quid later.
I don't know about the freight argument, but passenger wise I can't see HS2 bringing any more benefit to communities it serves than has HS1.

Hand mowing a field ready for tree planting, it was early February.
How on earth does the forestry industry cope when they have to plant on mountain sides amongst brash and boulders