Red tractor stakeholder survey on governance

Simon Chiles · Jan 3, 2024

texelburger said:
Professor Lacy devastated our meat industry at the time with his wild predictions.

Whilst this ^^ is entirely true the great British Public were having non of it. The price of beef collapsed and they snapped up the bargains, clearing the shelves. They ( rightly in hindsight ) didn’t give two hoots about NvCJD. All they cared about was that it was cheap. It tells you everything you need to know about what the majority of consumers think about any form of traceability.

neilo · Jan 3, 2024

SilliamWhale said:
Red Tractor did not solve that. The evidence that the modelling was rubbish did that

Red Tractor didn’t exist then. Farm Assurance, as it was, just certified that we were farming within the rules, nothing more. That helped to rebuild consumer confidence in uk red meat, alongside other measures like the OTMS scheme. Consumer confidence was at a low ebb.

Prof Lacey was never hauled over the coals, as he should have been, for his outlandish predictions.

I take you weren’t selling beef cattle or cull cows in the nineties.

egbert · Jan 3, 2024

neilo said:
There’s a fella down your way that’s done very well out of it. I don’t suppose he’d like to see it stopped, having worked so hard to get it implemented…

and is best buddies with some driving EID project.

You should've seen em - the EID gurus- trying to convince the great unwashed of Dartmoor that we needed the new plan- whatever it's called....you know, where we all get new herd numbers, chips with everything, and individual beast's numbers will start at 30,000.
Unsurprisingly, they met a certain amount of resistance, and when their ...er...'stretching of the truth'* was exposed, they got nasty.....proper aggressive. That bloke John Royal- or however he spells it...wow! With friends like that....

*some wag in the audience, when they waffled on about how all our competitors were already doing it and we had to keep up, pointed out that he'd just got back from Canada, where his host had no feckin tags in the cattle at all. And that this wags good lady ran a pedigree herd register for some Kiwis (from a desktop on Dartmoor), who had 3 different tagging systems extant - none of which corresponded, or was chipped. Their claims were a joke.

Simon Chiles · Jan 3, 2024

neilo said:
Prof Lacey was never hauled over the coals, as he should have been, for his outlandish predictions.

When you think back to his predictions and how wildly inaccurate they were it always surprises me that he wasn’t.

Jackov Altraids · Jan 3, 2024

This is the first time that I've read to the end of this thread so finally feel I can post something.

So this is my brief appraisee;

In early October, Andrew Opie announces the GFC
The NFU say they don't, do, don't, do know about it
The NFU say they aren't owners of RT, RT says they are, NFU says not, RT says they are
The NFU announce an independent review, which isn't independent, but then it is.
Minette has 'meetings' with the independent reviewer.
The independent reviewer asks a select list of people involved with decision making at RT whether they are making good decisions.
And then. . . . . .

it was rather clear that the conduct of the NFU requires an independent review.

Wilkster · Jan 4, 2024

Jackov Altraids said:
This is the first time that I've read to the end of this thread so finally feel I can post something.

So this is my brief appraisee;

In early October, Andrew Opie announces the GFC
The NFU say they don't, do, don't, do know about it
The NFU say they aren't owners of RT, RT says they are, NFU says not, RT says they are
The NFU announce an independent review, which isn't independent, but then it is.
Minette has 'meetings' with the independent reviewer.
The independent reviewer asks a select list of people involved with decision making at RT whether they are making good decisions.
And then. . . . . .

it was rather clear that the conduct of the NFU requires an independent review.

Going to stick my head above the parapet here and say that while there are clearly issues with the way the NFU are handling this, there’s a danger that it’s becoming a distraction from the issue of the introduction of the GFC.
We’re potentially seeing the biggest pushback against the mission creep by RT and this needs to be capitalised on. On the one hand we need to make it clear to the NFU and RT the level of resentment towards the constant mission creep that is putting us at a disadvantage and on the other, to the BRC that British Farming isn’t going to be used to “green” supermarket’s bad practices.

exmoorromney · Jan 4, 2024

neilo said:
There’s a fella down your way that’s done very well out of it. I don’t suppose he’d like to see it stopped, having worked so hard to get it implemented…

Don’t you use his tags?

ploughman1963 · Jan 4, 2024

Wilkster said:
Going to stick my head above the parapet here and say that while there are clearly issues with the way the NFU are handling this, there’s a danger that it’s becoming a distraction from the issue of the introduction of the GFC.
We’re potentially seeing the biggest pushback against the mission creep by RT and this needs to be capitalised on. On the one hand we need to make it clear to the NFU and RT the level of resentment towards the constant mission creep that is putting us at a disadvantage and on the other, to the BRC that British Farming isn’t going to be used to “green” supermarket’s bad practices.

This my concern as well. The review is into the governance of RT - and whilst we are getting all excited about being upset about not being included and embarrassing RT/NFU over the handling - we are taking our eye off the fact that there is nothing being done about fighting GFC. Suddenly we coukd wake up in February and realise that we’ve been fighting the wrong battle and RT simply announce GFC is going ahead anyway. We need to be stopping GFC not arguing about a review on how RT should have consulted with everyone before announcing it.

soapsud · Jan 4, 2024

ploughman1963 said:
This my concern as well. The review is into the governance of RT - and whilst we are getting all excited about being upset about not being included and embarrassing RT/NFU over the handling - we are taking our eye off the fact that there is nothing being done about fighting GFC. Suddenly we coukd wake up in February and realise that we’ve been fighting the wrong battle and RT simply announce GFC is going ahead anyway. We need to be stopping GFC not arguing about a review on how RT should have consulted with everyone before announcing it.

"sustainability is a licence to trade" i.e. farmers offer up their green credentials in return for being able to sell.

JP1 · Jan 4, 2024

Wilkster said:
Going to stick my head above the parapet here and say that while there are clearly issues with the way the NFU are handling this, there’s a danger that it’s becoming a distraction from the issue of the introduction of the GFC.
We’re potentially seeing the biggest pushback against the mission creep by RT and this needs to be capitalised on. On the one hand we need to make it clear to the NFU and RT the level of resentment towards the constant mission creep that is putting us at a disadvantage and on the other, to the BRC that British Farming isn’t going to be used to “green” supermarket’s bad practices.

Agreed and I’ve been boringly consistent in making that point on here and every questioning to NFU I could

The NFU have studiously avoided answering this point

Will Blackburn · Jan 4, 2024

ploughman1963 said:
This may concern as well. The review is into the governance of RT - and whilst we are getting all excited about being upset about not being included and embarrassing RT/NFU over the handling - we are taking our eye off the fact that there is nothing being done about fighting GFC. Suddenly we coukd wake up in February and realise that we’ve been fighting the wrong battle and RT simply announce GFC is going ahead anyway. We need to be stopping GFC not arguing about a review on how RT should have consulted with everyone before announcing it.

Simply, if they introduce GFC and RT has no credibility it will fail. They will be desperate to first save RT and ultimately NFU, as the way things are going the whole lot is at risk.

ploughman1963 · Jan 4, 2024

Will Blackburn said:
Simply, if they introduce GFC and RT has no credibility it will fail. They will be desperate to first save RT and ultimately NFU, as the way things are going the whole lot is at risk.

I do hope you are right and I am wrong

Breckland Boy · Jan 4, 2024

There has been much derision and ridicule about the nfu and this admittedly poorly produced survey. To think they are stupid or foolish is nieve. They are well funded, have a sound legal team and unfortunately know exactly what they are doing. They are deflecting attention away from the real issues that have greater significance, away from their real motive of introduction of the gfc.
The nfu are rt. Red tractor is the nfu.

ploughman1963 · Jan 4, 2024

Breckland Boy said:
There has been much derision and ridicule about the nfu and this admittedly poorly produced survey. To think they are stupid or foolish is nieve. They are well funded, have a sound legal team and unfortunately know exactly what they are doing. They are deflecting attention away from the real issues that have greater significance, away from their real motive of introduction of the gfc.
The nfu are rt. Red tractor is the nfu.

I think you are right

ajd132 · Jan 4, 2024

Breckland Boy said:
There has been much derision and ridicule about the nfu and this admittedly poorly produced survey. To think they are stupid or foolish is nieve. They are well funded, have a sound legal team and unfortunately know exactly what they are doing. They are deflecting attention away from the real issues that have greater significance, away from their real motive of introduction of the gfc.
The nfu are rt. Red tractor is the nfu.

From what I am hearing, from some people fairly involved is that Minette is ruling with an iron rod and is the main stumbling block. Whether that is true or not we will find out when she goes. But I suspect it is, this has come from quite a lot of people, not just one or two-people who were previously big fans of her.

Clive · Jan 4, 2024

graham mc said:
its so simple but someone refuses to agree and is on a one woman career gravy train

fixed that typo for you

Clive · Jan 4, 2024

ajd132 said:
From what I am hearing, from some people fairly involved is that Minette is ruling with an iron rod and is the main stumbling block. Whether that is true or not we will find out when she goes. But I suspect it is, this has come from quite a lot of people, not just one or two-people who were previously big fans of her.

i’m told similar she is very much the problem at the NFU by many very committed long term nfu council members / country chairs etc

telling off council members like naughty school kids for disagreeing with her or communicating with actual farmers

they all seem terrified of her but happy she will go soon - imo they shouldn’t wait until the agm for her to go - a vote of no confidence should be called at the next council meeting so she leaves in disgrace which hopefully reduces her chances of ever holding any position of power ever again

as it stands i’m sure she’s about to walk into a role with a supermarket or brc / aic etc where she can continue to screw farmers for her living

Breckland Boy · Jan 4, 2024

ajd132 said:
From what I am hearing, from some people fairly involved is that Minette is ruling with an iron rod and is the main stumbling block. Whether that is true or not we will find out when she goes. But I suspect it is, this has come from quite a lot of people, not just one or two-people who were previously big fans of her.

If that's the case she needs some credit. Too manipulate such an organisation so it's become a dictatorship. If her legacy is the gfc then she will be in the Lords pdq.
Where that leaves the nfu and more importantly British agriculture is less rosey.

J 1177 · Jan 4, 2024

Clive said:
i’m told similar she is very much the problem at the NFU by many very committed long term nfu council members / country chairs etc

telling off council members like naughty school kids for disagreeing with her or communicating with actual farmers

they all seem terrified of her but happy she will go soon - imo they shouldn’t wait until the agm for her to go - a vote of no confidence should be called at the next council meeting so she leaves in disgrace which hopefully reduces her chances of ever holding any position of power ever again

as it stands i’m sure she’s about to walk into a role with a supermarket or brc / aic etc where she can continue to screw farmers for her living

I know its on a smaller scale but when i was 16/17 in young farmers an older lad was chairman of our club Now hes a nice enough lad but he wanted to run the club his way and was quite pushy with us youngsters all around the same age.
Looking back its just the way he was.
We took a stand and said no its for the members and not a dictatorship.
It wasnt pleasant and a few members that hed got on side were caught in the crossfire (this really wasnt fair on them).
However im glad we did it, the club then florished as we worked together, competed at club level , county level and national.
The club is still going strong with some brilliant youngsters who are impressive people.
If we can take a stand at the age of 16 why cant the nfu council. Or are they that spineless.

If your reading this nfu bods grow a f**king pair and get shot of that dictator before she finishes your NFU club!!!

slackjawedyokel · Jan 4, 2024

Breckland Boy said:
There has been much derision and ridicule about the nfu and this admittedly poorly produced survey. To think they are stupid or foolish is nieve. They are well funded, have a sound legal team and unfortunately know exactly what they are doing. They are deflecting attention away from the real issues that have greater significance, away from their real motive of introduction of the gfc.
The nfu are rt. Red tractor is the nfu.

Yep- that’s what I’m thinking. The big issue is that farmers are furious about the attempted introduction of the GFC (which would require farmers to produce assets then steal them from them). This first review (it turns out) does not consult farmers and is not directly concerned with GFC.
It’s a distraction- a sideshow, and after it reports there is every likelihood that the GFC will go ahead. A fait accompli.
The longer-term plan, for the second review chaired by NFU and AHDB: unlike many farmers they both seem to think that assurance is utterly vital so I can already predict that the outcome will be a slight tinkering with RT which will result in it being proclaimed utterly fit for the future

I think we’re being played for fools.

Red tractor stakeholder survey on governance

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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