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Hard calvings have a significant negative effect on breed up that year. She may well not conceive within 42 days next bulling.
That's why I sell any cow which requires assistance.
Scottish Sub Calving index 410 days
- Thread starter unlacedgecko
- Start date
That's why I sell any cow which requires assistance.
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Don't get cross @Cowgirl
It was a desire to have a low input, low vet med cost enterprise. My meaning being, I don't want to see any vet on the farm, rather than the sexist way you appear to have interpreted it.
The female vets at my local practice are excellent (as are the male vets). And when I require veterinary services I more than welcome their expertise. I aim not to require it though.
Aspiring Peasants
Member
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- North Pennines
Surely if a cow needs help because of a wrong presentation that’s not genetic? Why not give her the chance of the bull before deciding to cull her.
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Sell her immediately. Shouldn't be a welfare issue slaughtering at that age, as there'd be no detectable foetus.
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Everything is genetics.
livestock 1
Member
If cows are run about before calving they will be more likely to present incorrectly
Aspiring Peasants
Member
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- North Pennines
Not in my experience. There’s an old saying that to produce good stock, it’s half feeding and half breeding. This was confirmed to me a few years ago when I AI‘d some heifers with a genus bull that a neighbour was also using. We both had blue x dairy heifers. He was an ex dairy farmer and used to making rocket fuel silage, ours is just old PP cut once when mature. He was complaining like bad about the genus bull because of the number of caesareans he had. Ours calved with little intervention. The only difference was feeding
I'm sure there's lots said the same.....Depends on the reason for a 'dead calf'.
Beef farmer fury over Scottish Suckler Beef Support Scheme fiasco
Any eligible beef calf born after December 2 2023 will fall under the scheme reform.www.pressandjournal.co.uk
That point is made in this article.
View attachment 1172280
I think the idea is, if a cow produces a dead calf she gets culled. I'm shocked people don't do this tbh.
For instance, any who came to term last night hereabouts will have faced a struggle to get a calf up and feeding - heavy wet snow.
Likewise, getting -ha, the irony!- Galloways to calve every year in hill conditions is quite a trick.
When they're on a low level of nutrition, if they don't think they're ready....they won't take the bull.
2nd calvers esp, if they're plain.
I see you're big on calving at 2y/o.
That simply won't happen here without significant (bought in) inputs.
I'm not against the OP policy in principal - not that it's relevant to me. We don't have such payments.
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Indeed.
There's still a genetic element. My job is to be the predator.
I ask the question, "if I wasn't here and we had a wolf pack, what would happen to that animal?"
If it would have been eaten, then I sell it. I don't want those genetics in my flock/herd.
I'm walking my ewes twice a day at the minute as I have very fit multiple bearing ewes that are getting cast. So far 0.5% of the flock has been cast. They've all been cull marked to sell at weaning. None of their daughters will be retained, as the other 99.5% of ewes have been farmed in identical conditions and don't need assistance.
I apply this to any animal needing individual assistance. It may well be that only 80% of these ewes currently on farm fit this criteria. That's fine, I'll only keep ewe lambs from those 80%.
livestock 1
Member
What I’m saying is you will cull some that don’t need culling
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You don't think it could be achieved through genetic selection?
Part of it can be achieved through genetics, but you won’t achieve everything because nature and nurture will always throw you a curve ball.
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But he’ll have less curve balls to handle which in itself is a huge gain
Maybe, but in my experience when you select for specific traits you will tend to have problems in other areas. It’s the law of unintended consequences.But he’ll have less curve balls to handle which in itself is a huge gain
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So, the correct way to analyse the financial performance of a suckler cow is the market value of her calf at weaning vs the annual cost to keep the cow.
Historically the margin on that has been quite low. For the purposes of this exercise let's put it at £100 (easy maths and I'm not very clever). Then, let's put the annual cost for keeping a cow at £700.
Again, these are just nominal figures to illustrate my point.
Cow has a dead calf, there's nothing to foster on. She's run round a year and bulled to calve next year.
That's a £700 cost with no income. That cow must now perform perfectly for the next 7yrs to break even. She won't show a profit until her 8th live calf following the dead calf.
I'm not prepared to take the risk that the next 8 calves won't have any expense incurring issue. Are you?
Historically the margin on that has been quite low. For the purposes of this exercise let's put it at £100 (easy maths and I'm not very clever). Then, let's put the annual cost for keeping a cow at £700.
Again, these are just nominal figures to illustrate my point.
Cow has a dead calf, there's nothing to foster on. She's run round a year and bulled to calve next year.
That's a £700 cost with no income. That cow must now perform perfectly for the next 7yrs to break even. She won't show a profit until her 8th live calf following the dead calf.
I'm not prepared to take the risk that the next 8 calves won't have any expense incurring issue. Are you?
livestock 1
Member
Or bring in heifers ready for the bull but wait 11 months to bull them before it’s ‘convenient’ for the farmer for the drastic event of the cow producing a calf
Just as bad
I’m with you on that one, no calf equals burgers.
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All my heifers are bulled at 13-15 months of age. I don't buy out of sync heifers.
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Yes every action has a reaction , and yet we do the same every year and get different results due to outside factors it’s part of the joys of our profession
