2 sheep questions

[SheepTrainer]

Why do ewes sometimes reject there lamb? And I'm very curious as to how smart (or stupid) other people think sheep are.

 

[ARW]

Read any book by Henry Brewis and all sheep questions will be answered

 

[Dry Rot]

The process by which a ewe (or other herbivore) and it's newly born young become bonded has been studied and it is quite a complex process often taking place over a relativel;y short period.

In brief, if any part of this process or behavioural pattern is missed or disrupted, the bonding may not be completed. Every shepherds knows how frustratingly "stupid" a lamb taken inside to warm up and then returned to the ewe can be. It may be rejected by the ewe or refuse to suck.

I assume this is so herbivores will not waste time trying to nurse young that are not 100% healthy and will die anyway. If they did stay around trying to encourage young that are not 100% to mother up, that would make both more vulnerable to predators. But that's just my guess. Some call this process 'imprinting', bonding, or social learning.

I am not a behaviourist or qualified in any way except by long experience as a trainer but it is something that we can use and prepare for. It is a complicated subject and the time scale can vary considerably according to the species.

Like most behavioural traits, "mothering" skills are also likely to be inherited. Like a lot here, I know how it works (or doesn't!) but I don't have the long words to explain it properly!

 

[Northeastfarmer]

Why do ewes sometimes reject there lamb? And I'm very curious as to how smart (or stupid) other people think sheep are.

I don't know but there's nothing more infuriating

 

[TripleSix]

We reckon she knows there's something wrong with it that's why she rejects it.

Abandolamb generally doesn't live for very long when you bring him in...

 

[Dry Rot]

We reckon she knows there's something wrong with it that's why she rejects it.

Abandolamb generally doesn't live for very long when you bring him in...

I don't think they have to know, just something wrong in the behaviour pattern. Same way a computer program won't work if something as simple as a comma is in the wrong place. Can't go against Nature.

It is interesting how some clever person worked out that tubing lambs doesn't usually seem to interfere with their instinct to suck. That used to be a real problem with cold lambs brought inside to warm up and then returned to their mothers. Or how a ewe will adopt an orphan that is wearing a jacket made out of the skin of their own dead lamb. That is a very old trick.

A lecturer in sheep management told me that putting a ewe that's rejecting a lamb into stocks (so she's forced to take it) will generally accept it when the lamb has digested and passed the milk from that ewe. Don't know if it's true, but it does make sense.

 

[Longlowdog]

Some sheep can count, others can't. Some ewes will move heaven and earth to find their triplet, other bleat 'no lambs, no lambs, ah enough lambs' even if only the first of twins wakes up.
Sheep are limited in their intelligence but stupidity is a quality reserved for humans. Sheep at their best and worst are only being sheep.

 

[Nithsdale]

A lecturer in sheep management told me that putting a ewe that's rejecting a lamb into stocks (so she's forced to take it) will generally accept it when the lamb has digested and passed the milk from that ewe. Don't know if it's true, but it does make sense.

They do. It works well.


The main reason a ewe decides to reject a lamb, is the loss of her scent on the lamb - wether that's from another ewe pinching/licking the lamb at birth, or the lamb repeatedly straying...


All that is needed (usually), is to mend the smell. Put the ewe in stocks or tie her up so that she allows the lamb in to suckle, and the lamb to be in close contact to mother and brother/sister - the smell will come back. Once it comes back and the 2 lambs smell the same, she will accept them.


The fight - flight instinct of leaving a weak lamb only really kicks in, in adverse weather... and usually only because she will leave the lambs for her own survival.

 

[Tim W]

Why do ewes sometimes reject there lamb? And I'm very curious as to how smart (or stupid) other people think sheep are.

Sheep are very intelligent ---you can see that by the way they have all of us constantly confused and arguing about why they do what they do
Why do they reject their lambs ? ---- common sense , if i had 2 kids every year i'd be bound to get sick of at least 1 in a lifetime

 

[Lovegoodstock]

All points above make sense. But the one thing that goes against most of these points, is the one that drives me up the wall, at birth of single, take a similar sized triplet pre soak it lamb new born over it, sometimes sometimes not put in a bucket with new born to really share smell. mother adores put on lamb more, for 3 days then decides she hates it. Never do get that. I find if they like it then hate it, stocks or adopters whatever the term is doesn't break them. Putting an old girl to tup sadly for last time, she would have gone 2 years ago if it wasn't given as luck as my daughters sheep, a real character, the saying follows like a sheep, she goes the opposite direction, a real character. A black sheep that from memory has had 1,2,2,3,3,3,2 lambs, never ever taken to a black lamb. Not inciting any silly responses, but gods honest truth, desperate to keep a ewe lamb off of her, last year was supposed to be her last year, had one white ewe lamb one black ram lamb fostered on to another ewe, heres hoping for next year

 

[JWL]

You will occasionally get the odd "totally non maternal, where the feck did that come from?" type. These will occour when you're exceptionally busy, they will be the fastest thing in the yard, often has very little milk and is there to try your patience. That is often the main cause, there are many distractions going on and they will feed on it, let's face it when you are involved with a large flock you will come across pretty much everything under the sun and it will be up to you on how you manage your time and effort, generally the black spot on the back of the neck along with the other troublemakers.
Many, many years ago I was involved with working with some Cambridge ewes, that was an interesting experience where some of the ewes would near enough try to mother anything that was in the pens, perhaps some of the selective breeding aiming to produce highly productive sheep also brought along a "mothering gene" as well, no Welsh Mule genes there then

 

[jemski]

All points above make sense. But the one thing that goes against most of these points, is the one that drives me up the wall, at birth of single, take a similar sized triplet pre soak it lamb new born over it, sometimes sometimes not put in a bucket with new born to really share smell. mother adores put on lamb more, for 3 days then decides she hates it. Never do get that. I find if they like it then hate it, stocks or adopters whatever the term is doesn't break them. Putting an old girl to tup sadly for last time, she would have gone 2 years ago if it wasn't given as luck as my daughters sheep, a real character, the saying follows like a sheep, she goes the opposite direction, a real character. A black sheep that from memory has had 1,2,2,3,3,3,2 lambs, never ever taken to a black lamb. Not inciting any silly responses, but gods honest truth, desperate to keep a ewe lamb off of her, last year was supposed to be her last year, had one white ewe lamb one black ram lamb fostered on to another ewe, heres hoping for next year

I had a black ewe that point blank refuses to rear a white lamb, even if it's her own. She had a black and a white twin this year and no amount of persuading would make her take the white lamb.... she went on the lorry at weaning...

 

[Poorbuthappy]

They do. It works well.


The main reason a ewe decides to reject a lamb, is the loss of her scent on the lamb - wether that's from another ewe pinching/licking the lamb at birth, or the lamb repeatedly straying...


All that is needed (usually), is to mend the smell. Put the ewe in stocks or tie her up so that she allows the lamb in to suckle, and the lamb to be in close contact to mother and brother/sister - the smell will come back. Once it comes back and the 2 lambs smell the same, she will accept them.


The fight - flight instinct of leaving a weak lamb only really kicks in, in adverse weather... and usually only because she will leave the lambs for her own survival.

Whilst I agree with what you're saying in general, that's very different from what @Dry Rot 's lecturer said. I've heard many claim with both calves and sheep that the mother's own milk coming through them will be enough to make them accept them. I personally think that's poppycock.

 

[Dry Rot]

To my mind, we pay far too little attention to what goes on between the ears of the animals we keep. That is changing. I believe sheep farmers down under usually have a policy, if they have to put a hand on a sheep it is marked and sent off at the next cull. That is following Nature and by far the best way. Don't worry whether the mismothering was due to some upset during that critical period between birth and following mum or something to do with the genetics. Just get rid.

 

[Nithsdale]

Whilst I agree with what you're saying in general, that's very different from what @Dry Rot 's lecturer said. I've heard many claim with both calves and sheep that the mother's own milk coming through them will be enough to make them accept them. I personally think that's poppycock.

It is very different. I'm no expert, but is what I have observed/learned from my time shepherding. Sheep are a lot smarter than some give credit for. But the natural birth and bonding period needs to happen in its own time. A ewe will know she's just had lambs... but until she has licked them clean and tidied up any trace of the birth -without any real interruption - there's a chance for rejection. She can't count, so doesn't know how many lambs she's just given birth to... it's whatever is around her which smells 'right'.

The thing with the milk is all scent/smells again. But - a ewe will not accept a lamb which comes and steals a bellyful of milk!... that 'process' takes 3-7 days, for the ewes smell to be transferred onto the lamb. Hence the need for her to be put in stocks for a week so she can't smell or see the lamb.

The only exception to these rules are maiden lambers - who, if their own lamb is dead, and has never been licked, you can get away with a 'poor' wet foster (or sometimes just putting any lamb in the pen). The gimmer will wonder what has just happened, but usually accepts the lamb once it suckles - as that kicks the mothering instincts into overdrive...

 

[Dry Rot]

There used to be a product in a small spray bottle that you could squirt up a ewe's nostrils so they temporarily lost the sense of smell. I'm told perfume nicked from wife or OH works just as well. Then the ewe can't decide a fostered lamb isn't their's -- in theory! But they still have eyesight and hearing, so..... Of course, the commercial stuff is expensive so must be better!

 

[JMx]

I try not to keep any replacements from such ewes, if possible...also noticed, fostered ewe lambs become poor mother's themselves... Well my experience anyway.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

I think all comments made are correct to a degree. Had 2 ewes this year who completely turned on one of their own couples for no reason. Never had ones like it. Really nasty trying to bite and hurt them continuously. Had them penned for 2 months.
Lambing is hormonal. To study stupidity or otherwise of sheep you need to watch them when they are being fed. Some not-so-clever chase the bag all the time rather than stick their head in a trough and feed. Others will spend all day, day after day with their head jammed in a creep feeder and never learn.

 

[CharcoalWally]

I try not to keep any replacements from such ewes, if possible...also noticed, fostered ewe lambs become poor mother's themselves... Well my experience anyway.

Interesting to hear another opinion.We've had this debate on here about whether pet ewe lambs go on to make good mothers or not.

I can't say that I can ever remember a pet lamb here on this farm ever failing to make a good mother, I don't think it's ever happened.

Got one just now. Lambs by herself, licks the 2 lambs senseless, doesn't ever favour 1 over the other, always has them glued to her. Walks up to you if you're working in the field and pulls at your clothing or nibbles your fingers to catch your attention while her lambs stand beside her looking wide eyed.

Also had 1 as a kid who was exactly the same. Wouldn't like to condemn pets simply because they weren't reared by their own mother.

 

[Longlowdog]

Same experience here, ewes reared on bottles have made great mums themselves. It really must be hard wired into them, no child remembers it's birth or raising.