Agents’ cheery outlook post-BPS

[warksfarmer]

If somebody takes the £250/ac retirement payoff will the entitlements for the farm be as good as sold ,so that the next generation cannot claim anything other than new enviro type payments?

You can’t claim the retirement pay off then pass the farm to your son. It’s a get out completely payment.

 

[Spud]

I cannot see £250/ac tempting many unless they are on there last legs, you need about £15k / yr just to survive these days let alone live a half decent retirement.

It's 50k on 200ac as a one off. Not a bad top up to the pension. Still get to sell farm assets. Don't need to pay it back. How profitable will a farm on the wind down be post bps?
I'd say it will be very attractive to some.

 

[Luke Cropwalker]

Have you a link to the detail on that Lee? Effective set aside on 50% @£176/ac and 120t/ac carbon sequestered sounds too good to be true!

50% wheat / 50% cover crop, would be ideal on heavy land. As usual the devil will be in the detail, what about blackgrass? Possibly glyphosate the cover in spring and re-drill?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

The future of UK farming will be around strict cost management, better understanding of our customers and getting closer to them imho. Do that and we have a positive future.

 

[Spud]

The future of UK farming will be around strict cost management, better understanding of our customers and getting closer to them imho. Do that and we have a positive future.

Getting closer to the customer takes time and costs money. There needs to be reward enough to justify such..... otherwise we finish up spending a quid to gain 90p

 

[farmerm]

Does the "Woodland carbon guarantee scheme" require permanent storage of the carbon in return for the payment?

I'm fundamentally against carbon trading (allowing commodity traders to suck profits from the actions of others whilst delivering no benefit themselves and often using those profits to maintain a high climate footprint) and carbon offsetting (allowing polluting businesses to avoid addressing their underlying pollution)

I am in total agreement!

 

[Steevo]

You can’t claim the retirement pay off then pass the farm to your son. It’s a get out completely payment.

"Get out completely" is a term that hasn't yet been defined.

Can you then rent it to another farmer, or must the land lie empty and fallow?
If you can rent it to another farmer.....can you rent it to your son if he is a farmer? How about your son-in-law? Or your nephew?

Seems to me that this is fraught with difficulties.

 

[ajd132]

50% wheat / 50% cover crop, would be ideal on heavy land. As usual the devil will be in the detail, what about blackgrass? Possibly glyphosate the cover in spring and re-drill?

Seed cost of two cover crops, two goes at drilling, rolling? Topping? Spraying? There is costs involved with these schemes which many seem to forget when they see the headline payment.

 

[Steevo]

It's 50k on 200ac as a one off. Not a bad top up to the pension. Still get to sell farm assets. Don't need to pay it back. How profitable will a farm on the wind down be post bps?
I'd say it will be very attractive to some.

What does it achieve for the government though? I still can't see why they would even bother with such a payment.

 

[Spud]

"Get out completely" is a term that hasn't yet been defined.

Can you then rent it to another farmer, or must the land lie empty and fallow?
If you can rent it to another farmer.....can you rent it to your son if he is a farmer? How about your son-in-law? Or your nephew?

Seems to me that this is fraught with difficulties.

Out is out. Sell up. Finished. No more farm derived income of any kind. As I understand it anyway.
Oh, and girls can farm too....

 

[7610 super q]

£250 / acre to retire ? Think I'd be wanting at least £2500 ? Greedy ? Moi ?

 

[Spud]

What does it achieve for the government though? I still can't see why they would even bother with such a payment.

I assume they think it will open doors for new, younger, hungrier new entrants with more years in front of them to justify longer term investments.

 

[Spud]

£250 / acre to retire ? Think I'd be wanting at least £2500 ? Greedy ? Moi ?

Exceptionally greedy.

If you were a farmer struggling on and living off depreciation with no successor, facing a declining bps and someone offered you what might be 5yrs profits in your hand to retire, it would be an opportunity worthy of consideration, surely?

 

[7610 super q]

Not sure how it would be policed either. Say you were to get out. Sell up. Then buy a house.....with a 100 acre garden.......and a shed.......to house some tractors........

 

[Steevo]

I assume they think it will open doors for new, younger, hungrier new entrants with more years in front of them to justify longer term investments.

I see.....I haven't met a young person with the money to be able to buy/rent a farm, shell out on the working capital to get it running and not draw any income for 12months+ with no government support. Even those "older" farmers with masses of assets behind them are struggling.

Perhaps I'm looking in the wrong places......

 

[Spud]

Not sure how it would be policed either. Say you were to get out. Sell up. Then buy a house.....with a 100 acre garden.......and a shed.......to house some tractors........

Provided it was a hobby and you didn't expect a brass farthing from govt, then fine. I highly doubt the target audience of the scheme would be arsed with buggering on with 100ac though. A tractor shed, maybe.

 

[Hindsight]

"Get out completely" is a term that hasn't yet been defined.

Can you then rent it to another farmer, or must the land lie empty and fallow?
If you can rent it to another farmer.....can you rent it to your son if he is a farmer? How about your son-in-law? Or your nephew?

Seems to me that this is fraught with difficulties.

And why we are not hearing much from government (Defra) After Goves announcement two years ago he then swanned off somewhere else in government and the Tory Party. Leaving the civil servant to draw up a plan. And the maze they are in keeps bringing them back to the beginning. They cannot find a way out of the paper bag - how to make a payment that does not end up capitalised in the rental or value of land.

 

[Spud]

I see.....I haven't met a young person with the money to be able to buy/rent a farm, shell out on the working capital to get it running and not draw any income for 12months+ with no government support. Even those "older" farmers with masses of assets behind them are struggling.

Perhaps I'm looking in the wrong places......

Maybe so, yes.

 

[midlandslad]

If we see people hold on for £250/ac for the next few years in the golden handshake and then look to sell the farm they will lose farm more than that on the capital value as the supply of land will be very high.

should only apply to tenant farmers.

 

[Hindsight]

Exceptionally greedy.

If you were a farmer struggling on and living off depreciation with no successor, facing a declining bps and someone offered you what might be 5yrs profits in your hand to retire, it would be an opportunity worthy of consideration, surely?

I hazard a guess government modelling has indicated the uptake will not be that great.