Massive step backwards from what?
What is it that commercial farmers are missing from recorded rams?
AHDB Non Job's.
- Thread starter gone up the hill
- Start date
What is it that commercial farmers are missing from recorded rams?
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
I wouldn’t disagree entirely with that. However, in what way are my ‘ebv rams’ no good, when they are producing lambs like that off very low inputs?
Please explain, using your ‘second to none’ grasp of figures, why those ebv rams have been ‘a massive step backwards’.
gone up the hill
Member
- Location
- Devon
In all areas!
We need rams that give results in a commercial situation, not in a situation where everything is geared to getting good figures but nothing else.
EBV should be a good thing but the way/ things they are being recorded for now aren't worth the paper they are written on, if they were there would be no need for the AHDB to be pushing them as they would sell themselves.
gone up the hill
Member
- Location
- Devon
I wouldn’t disagree entirely with that. However, in what way are my ‘ebv rams’ no good, when they are producing lambs like that off very low inputs?
Please explain, using your ‘second to none’ grasp of figures, why those ebv rams have been ‘a massive step backwards’.
Well you are very wrong, you could send two identical lambs to two different plants on the same day, one will be a U and one a R and both will also be a different fat class and one will kill out 0.5 kilo less than the other ( for example )
You need to read all the threads on TFF where people have experienced the above if you don't think im correct!
What results?
Better growth rates? More muscle? More fat? Worm resistance?
gone up the hill
Member
- Location
- Devon
Whole combination of things, none of which EBV figures are delivering.
Go to nearly all ram sales, EBV's are worthless, EBV breeders that record these figures need to ask themselves why this is the case.
If they think they need more promoting to farmers then they as breeders should pay this, it shouldn't be down to the AHDB to use levy funds from all levy payers to promote a commercial scheme like this that will only benefit a small selection of ram breeders.
So what do they need to deliver?
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
Stop ranting, take a breath and read my post again.
I said I wouldn’t disagree entirely with that (variation in grading between plants). Even with a bit of variation, those little bunch didn’t grade too badly, considering the6 were sired by no ‘ebv rams’ that are ‘no good’.
gone up the hill
Member
- Location
- Devon
Rams that at suitable for commercial farms/ ewes.
Where on earth are you looking for rams that you can't find any suitable for your farm?
gone up the hill
Member
- Location
- Devon
Hardly any ram sales use EBV figures which after they have been around for so long clearly shows they are not fit for purpose because if they were they would be prominent at every ram sale!
Nice editing.
Come along to the exlana sale in August and I'll show you 50 rams with ebvs that are good. Or go and look at @neilo 's rams.
Doesn't show that at all just shows that there's still a lot of breeders hanging on to breeding pretty rams with no idea of their performance
sherg
Member
- Location
- shropshire
Lambs will grade differently at different plants because there's a different person looking at them lambs will grade differently at the same plant because there's a different person looking at them end of, its down to someone's opinion and of course lambs weigh differently at different plants because they don't all dress to the same spec
- Location
- Near Beeston Castle
I think I am starting to figure out how AHDB get away with these things.
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
- Location
- Near Beeston Castle
Just argue about something other than what you are against it seems on this thread anyway.
AHDB published a report this week on how potato growers need to massively increase production, go on the potato price thread on here and everyone is saying how prices are rubbish and can't sell any amount anyway. Sounds to me (as a non potato grower) that the AHDB is completely disconnected from reality there.
Friend of mine has told me he is going to withhold his levy payment because the research done in his field is completely irrelevant. He probably pays half their budget or more he is that big, the point being he isn't happy with them.
I grow apples, the AHDB appear to me to do good work in that field but I am puzzled why I have to pay for the research only for them to publish the whole lot on the internet for everyone in the world to make use of. One thing to pay for it but another to be giving it away to those that don't.
Seems to me there is a common theme of dissatisfaction, I don't understand sheep but you lot have gone off on one as soon as AHDB sheep are mentioned.
AHDB published a report this week on how potato growers need to massively increase production, go on the potato price thread on here and everyone is saying how prices are rubbish and can't sell any amount anyway. Sounds to me (as a non potato grower) that the AHDB is completely disconnected from reality there.
Friend of mine has told me he is going to withhold his levy payment because the research done in his field is completely irrelevant. He probably pays half their budget or more he is that big, the point being he isn't happy with them.
I grow apples, the AHDB appear to me to do good work in that field but I am puzzled why I have to pay for the research only for them to publish the whole lot on the internet for everyone in the world to make use of. One thing to pay for it but another to be giving it away to those that don't.
Seems to me there is a common theme of dissatisfaction, I don't understand sheep but you lot have gone off on one as soon as AHDB sheep are mentioned.
- Location
- N.Lincs
How can you say that a ram that has been proven to be better than his peers for growth rate, conformation, fat depth or whatever by EBV figures is not going to pass on 50% of these traits to his commercial offspring?
We can all see what we want with regard to shape, skin, head size, etc but for us mere mortals, who don't have the benefit of your X-ray vision, EBV's become a useful tool in choosing a tup.
Now whether the ADHB need a full time employee to promote EBV's is another question. I suppose that depends on how much more efficient that employee can make the UK sheep industry by promoting their use to producers.
John Chance
Member
I think you are correct to say that Rome is burning GUTH. It's burning because we are almost certainly going to lose our lamb exports to mainland Europe and almost certainly going to be flooded with low welfare beef imports from elsewhere. I'm not sure what ADHB can do about that, other than try to help the industry become more productive and efficient. They don't get it right all the time, but you've got to admire their perseverance.
- Location
- N.Lincs
I'm no great fan of the ADHB, we fund them with a compulsory levy and this gives them a massive budget, which they do seem to spend on rather lavish salaries (in comparison to what we, the levy payers, earn anyway).
In their defence they do produce some good stuff.
The marketing information that they produce.....
http://beefandlamb.ahdb.org.uk/markets/auction-market-reports/
....I find very valuable. Updated daily it helps to make marketing decisions.
EBV figures are a useful tool. The Ram Compare project is interesting. Their Live to Dead days held at abattoirs are very good.
I do feel though that it needs a farmer leading it who may be more in touch with the real world rather that an ex editor of a farming paper
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Woolless
Member
- Location
- Berwickshire, Scottish Borders
Right, I'm off to bed shortly but I can't leave this alone. So if I've got this right, tups that have had their growth rate, eye muscle depth and possibly carcase muscle content (as well as that of their relatives) assessed are no good? But those produced by 'stockmen' that don't need such new -fangled nonsense are the bees' knees?
I'm taking a stab in the dark here but perhaps a lot of those sale tups are bought by people that don't understand (and don't want to make the effort to understand) EBVs? Much easier on the old noggin to make your decision without all those confusing figures!
I'm sure Signet could do better but this negativity regarding recorded sheep is a piece of nonsense.