Another BBC article Biased against farming.

[ollie989898]

No the definition of insanity would be to chuck government money and resources at folk for having kids in an overpopulated world but I bet you are there with your hand out.
You show me someone in this country that doesn't use government resources or get government money and I will show you a very rare person, you only have to walk down a road
But farmers getting a payment for keeping the land in GAEC is an easy target for the likes of you and the bbc

The UK's birthrate is declining (it is actually below replacement rate now) so I don't see what odds my family size has on the world's population. I'm a UK tax payer same as anyone else and now I'm in PAYE it's basically impossible to avoid. If there is loads of free money on offer please can you point me too it as I would like it very much.

I would point out that at no point have I claimed any furlough or self employed grant scheme stuff. I simply stayed home and looked after the kids.

 

[livestock 1]

Your point is moot given that virtually every business in the industry is seeking to minimise their tax liability. As I have said before, I had clients who openly told me that their subsidy was either modest in comparison to their business turnover, they didn't claim any at all or that they never used it in their farming activities so the argument that 'everyone needs it' is pretty weak in my view.

The prices of raw materials are linked to what the world markets for them or their substitutes are and also how much margin processors and retailers can garner for their product. If people want to use subsidies to churn out product that is otherwise unprofitable that is their own concern though I would point out that dumping product into the marketplace actually serves to bork the price for all.

Everyone needs it? Who said that apart from you?
Your last sentence answers the question that I have already answered twice

 

[Tim W]

You answer that but show no reason in your reckoning where as I do. Putting aside any moral right or wrongs what I have explained is how it is and like it or not -the injection of sub money will lower production therefore that will have an effect on prices.

The reasoning is that in the event of lower UK production levels we will source lamb (for example) from NZ/China/Aus or wherever supplies it at the cheaper rate? It's what happens now ----
If this is not the case then how come sheep farmers moan when imports of NZ lamb keep UK lamb prices down in the new year most years?

 

[ollie989898]

Everyone needs it? Who said that apart from you?
Your last sentence answers the question that I have already answered twice

I don't believe I have said everyone needs it- I've actually said the reverse, clearly a proportion of the industry do not 'need' it.

 

[Tubbylew]

An old timer from these parts told my grandfather, when he was a young man, "It is the subsidy that will ruin the farmer" he wasn't wrong, was he? Farmgate prices have barely budged in at least the last 30yrs. When subs go the public will have a swift education in the harsh realities of economics.

 

[ajd132]

An old timer from these parts told my grandfather, when he was a young man, "It is the subsidy that will ruin the farmer" he wasn't wrong, was he? Farmgate prices have barely budged in at least the last 30yrs. When subs go the public will have a swift education in the harsh realities of economics.

They won’t. The agriculture input supply and trade will have a swift education in the realities of economics. As well as land owners and agents.

 

[ollie989898]

An old timer from these parts told my grandfather, when he was a young man, "It is the subsidy that will ruin the farmer" he wasn't wrong, was he? Farmgate prices have barely budged in at least the last 30yrs. When subs go the public will have a swift education in the harsh realities of economics.

Which products do you see the prices of rising as a result?

In terms of arable farming, the final finished and retailed product is so distantly related to the commodity they are made from I can't see the end result adding more than a few pence to each unit on the shelf.

Beef and lamb I can see it having an impact upon as supply in theory will reduce somewhat. I guess the loss of the various livestock/headage payments over the years would be some indicator of what might happen. Did the removal of these have an impact on prices?

Poultry and eggs and pork have historically had little involvement from subsidies.

Fruit and veg, again, probably fudge all in it given the relative value of a crop per acre.

Dairy- the bulk of the players in this are either so good or so big or so high margin subsidy has minimal involvement in their business in real terms.

 

[puppet]

An old timer from these parts told my grandfather, when he was a young man, "It is the subsidy that will ruin the farmer" he wasn't wrong, was he? Farmgate prices have barely budged in at least the last 30yrs. When subs go the public will have a swift education in the harsh realities of economics.

And so might a lot of farmers and especially suppliers who will go bust up here

 

[steveR]

Don’t get me wrong, as an industry we should be able to stand on our own 2 feet financially, but the way in which cross compliance has been developed alongside threats of reducing paid subsidies shows how they’ve also been used as a tool to effect change.

And this is why the Govt will not stop paying support. Loss of control will be resisted I suspect.

No financial stick will mean farmers will put up two fingers...

 

[Hampton]

I was feeling rather indignant on first reading it but can't see too much wrong with it having read it again more slowly.
It is a pretty good appraisee of where we are and how we got here it is just the insinuation towards the end that money should be steered away from evil farmers towards altruistic environmentalists, that is flawed.
If anything, it shows how good farmers have always been at following the policies that have been put in place. It is not our fault if that have been wrong.
The policy required now is one that combines production with environmental benefit.
Premium's for grain grown in fields with fallow margins and for meat from farms with low density stocking etc.

It’s a good article, with a bad headline

 

[digger64]

You won't have to wait long!!

Are you sure ? this debate and supposed day of reckoning being round the corner has been going on as long as I can remember , it was even suggested this would happen here in the 80's after NZ sorted their system out .

 

[livestock 1]

The reasoning is that in the event of lower UK production levels we will source lamb (for example) from NZ/China/Aus or wherever supplies it at the cheaper rate? It's what happens now ----
If this is not the case then how come sheep farmers moan when imports of NZ lamb keep UK lamb prices down in the new year most years?

Not this year though likely as a lot has changed so I wouldn’t be getting too excited about that.
NZ national flock isn’t anything like it was size wise and won’t just expand by Jan/Feb 2021 to produce enough lamb to come here plus what’s wanted elsewhere but admittedly it could in a few years and no doubt will be expanding now as we speak
What’s more important in this discussion is at what price we here can produce lamb at. That depends on us as producers mainly and the hidden costs that have been slowly imposed upon us. This is the reason we have land with little or no stock on it. People can’t see a way to farm the poorer land and make a profit.

 

[ollie989898]

Why is the BBC still funded by taxpayers?

I think that worm is turning. Scheduled TV is going the way of the Dodo these days.

 

[Henarar]

Didn't

The UK's birthrate is declining (it is actually below replacement rate now) so I don't see what odds my family size has on the world's population. I'm a UK tax payer same as anyone else and now I'm in PAYE it's basically impossible to avoid. If there is loads of free money on offer please can you point me too it as I would like it very much.

I would point out that at no point have I claimed any furlough or self employed grant scheme stuff. I simply stayed home and looked after the kids.

Didn't think you would like that one, or would have any real answer to it.
You are happy to collect while saying others shouldn't,

 

[ollie989898]

Didn't

Didn't think you would like that one, or would have any real answer to it.
You are happy to collect while saying others shouldn't,

Collect what? I'm not aware of any payment paid to householders just for keeping their garden In GAEC?

If there is free money on offer point me to it.

 

[livestock 1]

Didn't

Didn't think you would like that one, or would have any real answer to it.
You are happy to collect while saying others shouldn't,

Someone must be paying him for sitting on his arse!

 

[Hampton]

They won’t. The agriculture input supply and trade will have a swift education in the realities of economics. As well as land owners and agents.

Oh but not yourself? How do you imagine you’ll be immune from this revolution?

 

[livestock 1]

Oh but not yourself? How do you imagine you’ll be immune from this revolution?

Probably because he does sweet fa

 

[ollie989898]

Oh but not yourself? How do you imagine you’ll be immune from this revolution?

Some people have thought about the economics of what they do and adapted accordingly? There are people out there making money quietly and steadily without subsidies. I've met several of them.

 

[digger64]

You answer that but show no reason in your reckoning where as I do. Putting aside any moral right or wrongs what I have explained is how it is and like it or not -the injection of sub money will lower production therefore that will have an effect on prices.

But the market place for most farm products is global , lots round here have had a poor barley harvest , the barley price is also poor despite lack of tonnage to sell