Another farmer co-op goes under

[RTK Farmer]

Regarding sheds on farm.
2 examples here, one had bins in that were used for about 30 yrs but couldn’t keep up with modern combine size and were v labour intensive so were scrapped, it cost to take them out. That shed now needs a new roof due to age/ deterioration/leaks and a new larger doorway so prob needs flattening and starting again, another bulk shed similarly not fit for modern size trailers so only suitable for general storage of a bit of bagged fert. To summarise they have not appreciated and have little value. A shed is a shed not a grain store, grain is a feed stuff or ingredient and needs storing as such, far better use shed infrastructure to enable the business to diversify or get development off the back of.

 

[Brisel]

The members still own the grain in the store, but that's what the Wellgrain creditors thought too.

 

[Woldgrain Storage]

But if wold grain could not pay wages , electric, etc and called receivers in, how would the farmers get their grain out past the security?

Firstly all grain movements into store, transfers internally and grain outloads are all computer recorded over a weighbridge.

All members' and merchants' stock levels and qualities are also computerised.

Depending on the time of year it is more likely that ownership of the grain lies with the merchants, rather than the growers. Woldgrain never owns the grain.

Already a significant proportion of the 18 crop has been transferred to merchants.

Each merchant reconciles grain movements and stocks on a monthly basis throughout the year.

 

[Lincsman]

Firstly all grain movements into store, transfers internally and grain outloads are all computer recorded over a weighbridge.

All members' and merchants' stock levels and qualities are also computerised.

Depending on the time of year it is more likely that ownership of the grain lies with the merchants, rather than the growers. Woldgrain never owns the grain.

Already a significant proportion of the 18 crop has been transferred to merchants.

Each merchant reconciles grain movements and stocks on a monthly basis throughout the year.

Ok, so how does the merchant get it past security?

 

[Woldgrain Storage]

Ok, so how does the merchant get it past security?

Because they have a monthly stock certificate signed by the store proving they own the grain.

 

[newjames]

Ok, so how does the merchant get it past security?

They have secret pockets in their trousers like in the great escape

 

[glasshouse]

Here's an example of why I like it going away at harvest. I had 200 t of beans in a shed on a contract farm 5 miles away. I've spent the last two days backwards and forwards waiting for lorries to turn up, not turn up. I've achieved very little. I know many contract farmers have sheds dotted about everywhere, the men spend the whole winter driving between them doing one load here one load there, but it's okay because they are salaried!

how does a salary stop that being a waste of time?

 

[Brisel]

how does a salary stop that being a waste of time?

I think he forgot the sarcasm emoji...

 

[glasshouse]

Regarding sheds on farm.
2 examples here, one had bins in that were used for about 30 yrs but couldn’t keep up with modern combine size and were v labour intensive so were scrapped, it cost to take them out. That shed now needs a new roof due to age/ deterioration/leaks and a new larger doorway so prob needs flattening and starting again, another bulk shed similarly not fit for modern size trailers so only suitable for general storage of a bit of bagged fert. To summarise they have not appreciated and have little value. A shed is a shed not a grain store, grain is a feed stuff or ingredient and needs storing as such, far better use shed infrastructure to enable the business to diversify or get development off the back of.

obviously the bulk shed was not built high enough. Lack of foresight= bad investment= depreciation.

 

[Baling Hay]

The members still own the grain in the store, but that's what the Wellgrain creditors thought too.

Wellgrain bust, then Angus cereals, which co-operative is next?

 

[Auckland Blue]

Wellgrain bust, then Angus cereals, which co-operative is next?

Didn't think Wellgrain was a Co-operative. might be wrong though.

 

[Clive]

The biggest problem with units on farm is IHT. Buildings go from ag value which has relief to an industrial estate which doesnt have any relief, its very hard to keep rentals to less than 30ish% of total turnover that seems acceptable to hmg when demand is huge. If anyone has good ideas how to arrange ownership to get by this problem they would be very popular if they let us lnow

BPR

https://www.gov.uk/business-relief-inheritance-tax

You get 100% IHT relief on your interest in a business I believe so as long as deceased ran his none farming letting as a business or he was a partner or part owner of a business then the buildings would qualify for the 100% IHT relief as far as I understand it

https://www.gov.uk/business-relief-inheritance-tax/what-qualifies-for-business-relief

So make sure your ownership of none farm buildings is a business and not a personal asset basically

 

[ajd132]

how does a salary stop that being a waste of time?

That was sarcasm

 

[ajd132]

Didn't think Wellgrain was a Co-operative. might be wrong though.

Welgrain was not a co-op

 

[limestone brash]

Here's an example of why I like it going away at harvest. I had 200 t of beans in a shed on a contract farm 5 miles away. I've spent the last two days backwards and forwards waiting for lorries to turn up, not turn up. I've achieved very little. I know many contract farmers have sheds dotted about everywhere, the men spend the whole winter driving between them doing one load here one load there, but it's okay because they are salaried!

Just ask them to ring you when they get there and they can wait for you
Lorry drivers are used to waiting at mills docks maltings etc!!

 

[Baling Hay]

Didn't think Wellgrain was a Co-operative. might be wrong though.

No you're not wrong, I meant to write "merchant" in the last sentence......

 

[newjames]

BPR

https://www.gov.uk/business-relief-inheritance-tax

You get 100% IHT relief on your interest in a business I believe so as long as deceased ran his none farming letting as a business or he was a partner or part owner of a business then the buildings would qualify for the 100% IHT relief as far as I understand it

https://www.gov.uk/business-relief-inheritance-tax/what-qualifies-for-business-relief

So make sure your ownership of none farm buildings is a business and not a personal asset basically

Old mill have told me that hmg dont consider letting buildings to be a business unless it has a variety of buildings ie not on one or two sites that were previously farm buildings that have been converted. They say bpr will be ok as long as income from lettings is no more than 30% of income total. With kids,stepkids and grandkids/stepgrand kids in the mix it all adds complications. Easy to bury my head but need to get it sorted

 

[glasshouse]

That was sarcasm

still dont get it.

 

[Grain Buyer]

Wellgrain bust, then Angus cereals, which co-operative is next?

I'm tempted to have a guess. Let me just check with the lawyers before I post.......

 

[Baling Hay]

I'm tempted to have a guess. Let me just check with the lawyers before I post.......

I think we all know who you are thinking!!