Any tips on fishing lake legals and practicals?

[Nosha123]

Hello all
Im new here so please be gentle.
;-)
Its VERY early days, but Im trying to research how to go about either buying (agricultural) land of circa 4-6 acres and installing a small lake, or land with a mature lake already there.
At this stage my intention is not for a commercial fishing premises... but instead to have a couple of small log cabins and run as a retreat style business, with the lake (and fish) providing a rural scenic backdrop.

I'm keen to make this quite eco-friendly... and want to encourage bats, bees, and fish (hopefully no cheeky otters to steal the fish!!!) as well as roaming peacocks. And whatever other creatures decide its a nice habitat to live in.

I have no idea where to start my research and whether planning permissions etc are required, other than I know the EA need to approve it all and I need licences of varying descriptions.
Many years ago - I built a small fishing lake on farm land, and so know how to go about that. From a practical sense. But not sure what rules and regs have changed relating to legals and local authorities.
Or if there are any subsidies available.

Would Agricultrual land allow a fishing lake to be installed? Or would I need to do a change of use?
Can I then install a log cabin to live in to care and attend to the fish (and other various animals). What would be the minimum requirement of animals needed to allow this usage?

Is farming of fish classified as something other than agricultural?
Basic tips or websites you can refer me to for my reading material much appreciated!
Also any planning consultants in the South East area you can recommend also welcome!

Have a great day

 

[Highland Mule]

Also any planning consultants in the South East area you can recommend also welcome!

@George from SJM Planning

 

[Suffolk Serf]

@Glass half full knows a lot about this topic.

 

[Nosha123]

thank you both..
Ive seen the username Glass Half Full on an older thread when I stumbled upon this forum.. so looking forward to hearing what they have to say!
Lets hope it isn't "nah dont touch it with a bargepole"
hahahaha

 

[Highland Mule]

Whatever else, you're going to need a chunk of money to do what you're planning. What are you budgeting on spending?

 

[ollie989898]

My understanding was the you need planning permission and a definite plan with how you engineer the site as you will be liable if anything goes wrong and next doors house gets flooded, etc.

 

[Nosha123]

For sure Highland Mule!!!
Like I said.. its REALLY early days... and this particular 'idea' is one of several ways I can possibly approach this (another would be to buy a cottage with a large piece of land but the cost would be much higher due to the value of the plot (which would include the residential house). So probably nearer £1.3m - £1.5m

Decided to think more laterally and come at this from another angle.... and see what it might cost to buy the bare land and install the lake (the land could be more wooded and boggy I guess.... so not arable farm land)
The log cabins are likely to be circa £50k each to build from kits and finish.
Utilities and access costs depends on the land.
Land might already have derelict farm buildings or barns on... which might be easier from a planning perspective I guess!
Ideally lake might already be there but if it isn't then that's another huge expense (although got experience in this already)

Just looking for conversational tips and pointers from anyone who has experience in this and wants to share their story!!!

 

[Nosha123]

Thank you Ollie
To give a sense of size.. I dont think the lake would be much bigger than 1/4 acre.. and might sit within a 4 or 5 acre plot...
If that helps

 

[Nosha123]

or maybe the lake is whatever size it needs to be in proportion to the land to mitigate flood risk to other areas!!! (yes Im making this up as I go along!)

 

[ollie989898]

For sure Highland Mule!!!
Like I said.. its REALLY early days... and this particular 'idea' is one of several ways I can possibly approach this (another would be to buy a cottage with a large piece of land but the cost would be much higher due to the value of the plot (which would include the residential house). So probably nearer £1.3m - £1.5m

Decided to think more laterally and come at this from another angle.... and see what it might cost to buy the bare land and install the lake (the land could be more wooded and boggy I guess.... so not arable farm land)
The log cabins are likely to be circa £50k each to build from kits and finish.
Utilities and access costs depends on the land.
Land might already have derelict farm buildings or barns on... which might be easier from a planning perspective I guess!
Ideally lake might already be there but if it isn't then that's another huge expense (although got experience in this already)

Just looking for conversational tips and pointers from anyone who has experience in this and wants to share their story!!!

You are describing a change of use. Buying agricultural or forestry land does not mean you will be entitled to build a dwelling there or even park a caravan. Whether there is an existing barn there or not is immaterial really.

I am afraid you are asking the same questions and thinking the same things that a million other Britons often do. I can buy this piece of land, dig a lake and live in a log cabin, ideal. Only it doesn't work that way.

 

[Highland Mule]

For sure Highland Mule!!!
Like I said.. its REALLY early days... and this particular 'idea' is one of several ways I can possibly approach this (another would be to buy a cottage with a large piece of land but the cost would be much higher due to the value of the plot (which would include the residential house). So probably nearer £1.3m - £1.5m

Decided to think more laterally and come at this from another angle.... and see what it might cost to buy the bare land and install the lake (the land could be more wooded and boggy I guess.... so not arable farm land)
The log cabins are likely to be circa £50k each to build from kits and finish.
Utilities and access costs depends on the land.
Land might already have derelict farm buildings or barns on... which might be easier from a planning perspective I guess!
Ideally lake might already be there but if it isn't then that's another huge expense (although got experience in this already)

Just looking for conversational tips and pointers from anyone who has experience in this and wants to share their story!!!

Sounds like you're being sensible in that regard, so good luck. Too many dreamers on here recently wanting to get a 'spare' acre for £5k

 

[ollie989898]

or maybe the lake is whatever size it needs to be in proportion to the land to mitigate flood risk to other areas!!! (yes Im making this up as I go along!)

I had a client who built some serious fishing lakes on his land and he did not just go and dig it himself. He had a plan drawn up and it was carefully done as it was a big project and a big volume of earth/clay had to be moved whilst he was at it. He was also not far from an adjacent watercourse so the EA were very keen to be involved from the outset. I can distinctly remember him mentioning the fact that if one of the banks gave way and the water went and inundated someone's property he would be liable so the project was designed by people who engineered it to be safe.

 

[Nosha123]

You are describing a change of use. Buying agricultural or forestry land does not mean you will be entitled to build a dwelling there or even park a caravan. Whether there is an existing barn there or not is immaterial really.

I am afraid you are asking the same questions and thinking the same things that a million other Britons often do. I can buy this piece of land, dig a lake and live in a log cabin, ideal. Only it doesn't work that way.

So its not impossible then :-P

 

[Nosha123]

I had a client who built some serious fishing lakes on his land and he did not just go and dig it himself. He had a plan drawn up and it was carefully done as it was a big project and a big volume of earth/clay had to be moved whilst he was at it. He was also not far from an adjacent watercourse so the EA were very keen to be involved from the outset. I can distinctly remember him mentioning the fact that if one of the banks gave way and the water went and inundated someone's property he would be liable so the project was designed by people who engineered it to be safe.

Sounds really interesting! Ive got experience of excavating and being near watercourses! Also know the red tape the EA can put you through!

 

[Nosha123]

I would fully intend to do this the proper way by the way!
Just clarifying... in case my original post made it sound like Im some kind of dreamer with my first JCB excavator and a caravan!
;0)

 

[George from SJM Planning]

We have experience in fishing and leisure planning across the South East and would be happy to advise.

Based on your initial post I would suggest you would need a change of use application from agricultural to a sui generis leisure and tourism use.

If you are searching for sites I would suggest avoiding anything in an AONB, National Park etc - the accomodation and man-made water bodies will be difficult to justify within a protected landscape.

Fishing lakes can be suitable within Flood Zones 2 & 3 as the lakes could be designed to take excess flood water. BUT, Flood Zones 2 & 3 are unsuitable for ground floor sleeping accommodation so that would scupper the holiday accommodation. So, you should be looking for a site in Flood Zone 1 (or marginal 2 at worst).

You will need a rigorous business plan, landscaping design, flood risk assessment and planning policy justification.

Good luck

 

[George from SJM Planning]

This is one we got planning for on the banks of the River Medway.

Branbridges Road, Tonbridge - Lambert & Foster

An interesting parcel of land immediately adjoining Branbridges Industrial Estate, extending to some 7.85 acres. The site benefits from two separate planning permissions, for the creation of a fishing lake and the construction of a café. VIEWING: From the public footpath or in due course by...

www.lambertandfoster.co.uk

 

[Dry Rot]

My neighbours put in a duck flight pond of about 1/4 acre (roughly measured off Google maps). I was involved as the shooting tenant and cannot recall any mention of planning permission or licences. But there was a wet spot there before, possibly a small mill pond in the distant past which dried out in summer, and all we did was enlarge and deepen it. As I recall it took the contractor less than a week, so was not that expensive. I have got photos somewhere.

The land is a 300 acre moor currently landscaped and planted with trees. As the owners were lawyers, I assume they did everything by the book! But this is the Highlands of Scotland and it was probably explained away as a reservoir for fire protection.

Interestingly, my suggestions that we'd need a liner were dismissed. The contractor had built multiple ponds for the RSPB and just dug them below the water table using the excavated material to build up the edges and form a small island in the middle. Any runner or drain was led into the pond and it has always contained water.

 

[Nosha123]

Gosh thank you everyone! Really interesting to read through this all (Apologies for being late with the thanks... I didnt get a notification of the last 2 posts being added!)
Will definitely be in touch @ George from SJM Planning!

 

[Glass half full]

bar the house to live in (as I live on site already) I have done exactly what your looking at. have a look at my website www.serenitylakes.co.uk it was a bare field nearly four years ago. my neighbour got planning for 10 houses on a Greenfield site quicker than I got my planning permission for a 2 acre lake! it was a hassle but I would do its again in a flash!

your biggest problem will be finding a site. Fenn wright has a website just for fishing lakes, worth keeping an eye on. every man and his dog who likes fishing dreams of owning a lake so there is strong demand.

if your doing it just to get a house on site the councils are pretty hot on that kind of thing!