Anything below bus pass

[Cowabunga]

That’s after they’ve paid themselves a 50k salary.

Probably not. Most farms are sole traders or partners and personal drawings are taken out of the net profit or loss. In many cases as an increased farm debt.

 

[Nearly]

While tax laws may change, the current situation is as favourable for retirement as I think I can ever remember it (my father inherited from his father in 1974 when pips were being squeaked). You can sell up and pay just 10% on up to £10m as a retirement sale using Entrepreneur Relief, and you can pass land on to the younger generation entirely free of IHT via Agricultural Property Relief. The only advantage of dying with your boots on is that the farm gets revalued at market price on death, and the heirs get a higher base value for future CGT purposes.

I think the main reason for hanging on is that people have failed entirely to make provision for their retirement and can't afford to hand over the farm - there is no pension, other than the BPS. Plus farmers are natural control freaks and giving up control is often only forced by poor health, or even death.

The revaluing of the farm on death is a biggie though.

Specially when the fortunes of farming mean that either there aren't enough assets accumulated to treat all offspring equally or the farm size isn't big enough to be split into viable units to make a wage for each offsprung.

 

[Pasty]

What's 80s style cattle farming?

What people still do and then moan as they lose money year after year.

 

[GTB]

What people still do and then moan as they lose money year after year.

Please expand on that, Im curious.

 

[Pasty]

Please expand on that, Im curious.

Curious is good.

 

[GTB]

Curious is good.

Well?

 

[Pasty]

Well?

Indeed.

 

[glensman]

Indeed.

treading water

 

[Walterp]

treading water

I suggest that is a better answer to 'what does 2017 cattle-keeping look like?'.

The correct answer to GTB's question is, of course, that in the 1980's cattle prices were high and profits were good. Farms were £1,000/acre, red was 13ppl, and my rates bill was £250/year. A tenant farmer could have a retirement sale and buy a nice bungalow out of the proceeds.

Beam me back, Scotty...but not as a 1980's dairy farmer, please.

 

[Roger Perry]

A 50,000 acre spread recently sold in Wyoming, good water, good facilities.......$300 per acre.

Run your cows out across that, keep your costs low, de-stress,enjoy life, make money.

 

[Walterp]

A 50,000 acre spread recently sold in Wyoming, good water, good facilities.......$300 per acre.

Run your cows out across that, keep your costs low, de-stress,enjoy life, make money.

My calculator makes that £10 million?

 

[Cowabunga]

My calculator makes that £10 million?

Hasn't a farm not far from you, a tiny fraction of that size, sold for maybe 3 or four million in the last few days?
Which do you think would pay better from farming?

 

[Roger Perry]

The 50k spread was a ranch...in Wyoming, once you move south in to Colorado prices increase.

I am not familiar with the land you speak of but here in my locale good irrigated land capable of growing any crop will change hands at $5-$6000 per acre.
Some farmers will have a ranch but not many ranchers will farm unless its' alfalfa for winter feed.

 

[Cowabunga]

The 50k spread was a ranch...in Wyoming, once you move south in to Colorado prices increase.

I am not familiar with the land you speak of but here in my locale good irrigated land capable of growing any crop will change hands at $5-$6000 per acre.
Some farmers will have a ranch but not many ranchers will farm unless its' alfalfa for winter feed.

What is your distinction between ranching and farming? To me ranching is just extensive grazing of commercial livestock as opposed to more intensive. Either way I consider it to be farming. Unless there’s a total lack of management or commercial imperative of any kind, in which case it is just lazy benign neglect for someone who makes or made an income elsewhere.

Please put me right on this and explain your definitions

 

[Roger Perry]

OK, will try
Out here in the western states a rancher is a keeper of livestock, cattle / sheep. Its' traditional to put up hay for winter feed for own use, mostly irrigated meadow hay and alfalfa.

Ranches are usually rated on their carrying capacity rather than by acres.........so a high yielding well watered place will carry more AU's (animal units) than a more arid place...an animal unit is rated at enough grass to keep a cow/calf for a month or..I think 5 sheep.?.......sheep are counted in bands.......a band of sheep is 1,000 head. Cattle and sheep will be cared for in traditional ways, cowboys run cattle.......the rancher will employ sheepherders to live with the sheep year round, dogs to guard / herd, a pony to ride...housing on wheels.

A lot of livestock will go to mountain pasture during summer months, leased from various govt agencies...forest service etc at very low rental rates, either trucked or in many cases, driven over several days in the traditional cowboy way.

On the other hand, a farmer is regarded as a grower of crops to sell, in my area it's totally irrigated thru center pivot on qtr sections of land (160 acres)
Cotton/corn/beans/ sunflowers/canola/wheat/potato's...whatever its considered farming.

Irrigated land I prefer, it gives the ability for more even cropping, managing inputs in a more precise fashion for max yield and consistent quality, dryland guys tend to farm more acres but yields are lower......each to their own.

 

[Pasty]

treading water

Not at all. We made money on sucklers in the 80's by going to big continentals, feeding them hard and folk still to do it in exactly the same way even though it seems the same cattle are now making a loss. Set stocking too many cattle so they spend more time indoors than they should. I would suggest that the smart money has moved back to the proper breeds and types which can work and grow well in our climate and on our soils.

I read a piece on black and whites the other day and even with them, the 100% grass system came out on top, albeit a slower process with less gain overall.

The future will be forage management and grazing technique in my opinion.

 

[caveman]

Not at all. We made money on sucklers in the 80's by going to big continentals, feeding them hard and folk still to do it in exactly the same way even though it seems the same cattle are now making a loss. Set stocking too many cattle so they spend more time indoors than they should. I would suggest that the smart money has moved back to the proper breeds and types which can work and grow well in our climate and on our soils.

I read a piece on black and whites the other day and even with them, the 100% grass system came out on top, albeit a slower process with less gain overall. St

The future will be forage management and grazing technique in my opinion.

There's still plenty of waste to use up in fattening units in the meantime.
Good system is to breed on the hills and poor land then fatten in units where the arable and veg waste is. As it used to be done.
High cost is involved in finishing in "poor" areas.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

OK, will try
Out here in the western states a rancher is a keeper of livestock, cattle / sheep. Its' traditional to put up hay for winter feed for own use, mostly irrigated meadow hay and alfalfa.

Ranches are usually rated on their carrying capacity rather than by acres.........so a high yielding well watered place will carry more AU's (animal units) than a more arid place...an animal unit is rated at enough grass to keep a cow/calf for a month or..I think 5 sheep.?.......sheep are counted in bands.......a band of sheep is 1,000 head. Cattle and sheep will be cared for in traditional ways, cowboys run cattle.......the rancher will employ sheepherders to live with the sheep year round, dogs to guard / herd, a pony to ride...housing on wheels.

A lot of livestock will go to mountain pasture during summer months, leased from various govt agencies...forest service etc at very low rental rates, either trucked or in many cases, driven over several days in the traditional cowboy way.

On the other hand, a farmer is regarded as a grower of crops to sell, in my area it's totally irrigated thru center pivot on qtr sections of land (160 acres)
Cotton/corn/beans/ sunflowers/canola/wheat/potato's...whatever its considered farming.

Irrigated land I prefer, it gives the ability for more even cropping, managing inputs in a more precise fashion for max yield and consistent quality, dryland guys tend to farm more acres but yields are lower......each to their own.

Thanks Roger, that was really quite an interesting definition (thanks too Cowabunga for asking the Q)
Just learnt I'm a mini-rancher and quite like the title.

 

[Dead Rabbits]

OK, will try
Out here in the western states a rancher is a keeper of livestock, cattle / sheep. Its' traditional to put up hay for winter feed for own use, mostly irrigated meadow hay and alfalfa.

Ranches are usually rated on their carrying capacity rather than by acres.........so a high yielding well watered place will carry more AU's (animal units) than a more arid place...an animal unit is rated at enough grass to keep a cow/calf for a month or..I think 5 sheep.?.......sheep are counted in bands.......a band of sheep is 1,000 head. Cattle and sheep will be cared for in traditional ways, cowboys run cattle.......the rancher will employ sheepherders to live with the sheep year round, dogs to guard / herd, a pony to ride...housing on wheels.

A lot of livestock will go to mountain pasture during summer months, leased from various govt agencies...forest service etc at very low rental rates, either trucked or in many cases, driven over several days in the traditional cowboy way.

On the other hand, a farmer is regarded as a grower of crops to sell, in my area it's totally irrigated thru center pivot on qtr sections of land (160 acres)
Cotton/corn/beans/ sunflowers/canola/wheat/potato's...whatever its considered farming.

Irrigated land I prefer, it gives the ability for more even cropping, managing inputs in a more precise fashion for max yield and consistent quality, dryland guys tend to farm more acres but yields are lower......each to their own.

Aren't you in a malting barley area as well? What crops do you grow?

 

[Cowabunga]

That's the third of my target of five new things to learn every 24 hours right there. As I said I always assumed that 'ranching' was a generalised term for extensive reasonably large area livestock farming.
Hold on though……………. it still is, isn't it?