glasshouse
Member
- Location
- lothians
Nor have i neen hood winked out of one, but i know many mainly older who have
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Are Farm Business Tenancies (FBT) almost a thing of the past?
- Thread starter Pilatus
- Start date
- Location
- Gainsborough, Lincolnshire
Resorting to insults again flatters you!
Thanks for the intellectual chat - think I’ll move on now though.
How many do you know?
glasshouse
Member
- Location
- lothians
70506"]How many do you know?[/QUOTE]
Far too many.
Far too many.
glasshouse
Member
- Location
- lothians
Off you trotResorting to insults again flatters you!
Thanks for the intellectual chat - think I’ll move on now though.
Pilatus
Member
From a landowners/landlords point of view what are the tax advantages/disadvantages an FBT vs a Contract Farming Agreement, and vice versa tax advantages /disadvantages of Contract farming agreement vs an FBT.
I ask the question not as a landowner or landlord, but just out of general interest,the same reason for starting the thread as semi retired ex tenant farmer that used to have some land on an FBT.
I ask the question not as a landowner or landlord, but just out of general interest,the same reason for starting the thread as semi retired ex tenant farmer that used to have some land on an FBT.
Pilatus
Member
With all due respect if that is the case , with what personal experience do you have to comment or to be so obnoxious with your comments. Please can you explain so that we can appreciate your comments.
glasshouse
Member
- Location
- lothians
Pilatus
Member
Please explain further.
The norm around here is to scrap the fbt’s as the ageing landlords need to look like there farming for inheritance tax purposes, put a bid out for the work and cheapest wins the race to the bottom. Let out the house and buildings to the equine folk for thousands of pounds a month, unless you can get planning for houses obviously!
So the land gets raped, the house gets trashed, the buildings fall down, the estate falls apart for the next generation while kicking out farming families and local people. It’s great!
So the land gets raped, the house gets trashed, the buildings fall down, the estate falls apart for the next generation while kicking out farming families and local people. It’s great!
wasted years
Member
- Location
- Cumbrian born and bread
That would never be legal.
- Location
- East Sussex
I have a number of FBT's and they mostly have worked well for both sides, however I will only take them on where I get the SFP/BPS and I own the entitlements. Starting out from this position may mean you pay a little more rent but you do at least have more control over your destiny.
I do have one where the landlord takes the environmental payments, but I do pay a lower rent and I am guessing that when it comes up for renewal then he will drop out and let me have the option of setting up any new scheme with an adjustment in the rent.
As has been pointed out on here already that an FBT can be set up in almost any way the landlord or tenant wants. Perhaps the trickiest part is to ensure that the tenant is compensated correctly for any improvements they have made and it is necessary to document these and make sure the landlord has an understanding of the amounts involved.
The greatest problem in the South East is that the houses have been sold off to non farmers and they mostly do not want you to use the buildings, so they are excluded from any agreements. This seriously limits any young person from gaining a foothold as some buildings or yard and affordable housing is essential for a livestock operation.
The Agents in this area tend to be more realistic on the rental value of FBT's as they know that the owners are much more concerned about having the land look "pretty" and well maintained and a good view rather than the amount of rent they receive, which for many compared with their income from the City is peanuts!
I do have one where the landlord takes the environmental payments, but I do pay a lower rent and I am guessing that when it comes up for renewal then he will drop out and let me have the option of setting up any new scheme with an adjustment in the rent.
As has been pointed out on here already that an FBT can be set up in almost any way the landlord or tenant wants. Perhaps the trickiest part is to ensure that the tenant is compensated correctly for any improvements they have made and it is necessary to document these and make sure the landlord has an understanding of the amounts involved.
The greatest problem in the South East is that the houses have been sold off to non farmers and they mostly do not want you to use the buildings, so they are excluded from any agreements. This seriously limits any young person from gaining a foothold as some buildings or yard and affordable housing is essential for a livestock operation.
The Agents in this area tend to be more realistic on the rental value of FBT's as they know that the owners are much more concerned about having the land look "pretty" and well maintained and a good view rather than the amount of rent they receive, which for many compared with their income from the City is peanuts!
Sussex Martin
Member
- Location
- Burham Kent
Before I bought my place it was on an FBT which to start with was yearly, the estate was sold fire sale method to a property development company and they managed the estate internally. I approached them and suggested that I was more likely to do jobs that needed money spent on them if I had some security and negotiated a 10 year term. It can be done if you make it attractive enough for them.
- Location
- Gainsborough, Lincolnshire
Exactly - it’s a two way negotiation.
Anybody who thinks they have to do or agree to everything the landlord wants is either extremely naive or lacks basic business knowledge.
yellow belly
Member
- Location
- south west lincolnshire
- Location
- Gainsborough, Lincolnshire
Demand is only high due to tenants being willing to pay higher rents etc.
So it must be viable for somebody.
If your business can’t justify the market level, then get get out.
I know I get a lot of stick in here for saying it, but nobody has a god given right to farm - it’s a business choice. Those who think otherwise are unfortunately often the ones who make terrible business decisions, then look to blame others for their own actions.
yellow belly
Member
- Location
- south west lincolnshire
before 1975 farmers tendered high rents for land than was justified as key money was needed to secure a tenantcy then after the first review the rent adjusted to the going rate large arable farmers had an advantage in open tender 1200 acres near here was let to 2 large north lincs farmers in the 1960s no buildings and they carted all the grain 30 miles back home
- Location
- Shropshire
The tfa campaigns for longer terms and tenant rights are a threat, especially when landowners and estates are already nervous of a labour government that will be sympathetic to the tfa.
Landowners will be more inclined to go down the contract farming route until the uncertainty has gone. Cfa don’t give the contractor the flexibility to try new things or encourage investment in infrastructure. They also add to costs and management for the landowners, although does help to keep the gamekeeper in check!
Landowners will be more inclined to go down the contract farming route until the uncertainty has gone. Cfa don’t give the contractor the flexibility to try new things or encourage investment in infrastructure. They also add to costs and management for the landowners, although does help to keep the gamekeeper in check!
Thanks for the info