Are we a communist state through the back door

[Lowland1]

We should aim to be as food efficient as possible for the sake of all trade agreements.

Simple - close down AD plants, Vivergo, Dog Food factories.

Close down the AD plants. You really are a reactionary communist.

 

[Interested in farming]

You are still making something to sell.

I would agree, but many don't see that. Saw a miner on GB news the other day tell us the solution was 'proper jobs' not 'shelf stacking' in supermarkets.
If someone doesn't put the stuff on shelves we're gonna go hungry. Leaving aside the fact that no one 'stacks shelves' full time its a typical example of the attitude of the only worthwhile job is an old fashioned 'working class' job.

I managed a factory but in the overall supply chain the 'making' bit was supported by an army of people who let me focus on getting stuff through machines. Marketing, HR, Accounts, Stores, Transport, QHSE. It's the equivalent of the janitor in NASA who when asked what he did, said 'putting a man on the moon'.

 

[roscoe erf]

youth wasted on the young

 

[topground]

I don’t have a problem paying tax as long as it is not wasted. The problem lies with the civil service not spending my money as if it was their own. Too many administrative empires across all public services created fo protect the people at the top from making day to day decisions. Take out layers of middle management by making it clear what the workers delivering the service need to do and provide them with the pay and kit to deliver.
Change the culture of the civil service so they concentrate on the product rather than the process.

 

[puppet]

. I was confronted by one chap handing out fliers campaigning to have buses made free of charge for students. I asked who he expected should pay for this: 'the government', where upon I informed him that the reality of his answer was in fact: 'the tax payer' and that because I am one I would not be campaining for free buses as I would be the one paying for it.

In Scotland buses are free up to age 22. And of course for over 60s too. As well as uni fees, prescriptions, eye checks and personal care for the elderly.
I don't know exactly who pays for it. Some of those well off toffs who pay 45% tax

 

[Old apprentice]

In Scotland buses are free up to age 22. And of course for over 60s too. As well as uni fees, prescriptions, eye checks and personal care for the elderly.
I don't know exactly who pays for it. Some of those well off toffs who pay 45% tax

London gov threw taxation.

 

[puppet]

Thank goodness for Westminster. I think we also pay more tax in Scotland

 

[spin cycle]

havn't Read thread so apologies if already said

basic political philosophy is about the amount of state control

to the left it's centralised control ...the theory being concentrate time/resources for everybody benefit. ...extreme is communism

to the right is the notion that you give ppl freedom and use market forces so ppl can look after and raise themselves

our democracies try to operate in a happy medium

increasingly though our Western governments tend to lean towards increasing regulation to manage things rather than action to improve....this suggests a shift to left leaning centralisation....a desperately worrying trend

I also think govts view farmers as a relatively wealthy...independent and resourceful part of the nation and they feel threatened by this....proffering instead to cosy to corporations more in tune to their philosophy

a good example is the housing shortage...this shortage leads to many ppl falling victim to less scrupulous landlords in poor housing....the left (easy option) is to regulate harder but this just deters good landlords and exacerbates the shortage.....the right would look for ways to house themselves via planning rules and build more social housing...by creating more supply tenants could move from poor housing pressuring bad landlords....the only problem with this approach is that it's hard/slow to do.....where as a left wing regulation is a quick political soundbite

I find myself in tune with right wing leaning de regulation...small govt...the only trouble is to admit so is to be branded 'alt right'

 

[warksfarmer]

So in short, everything is someone else's problem and funnily enough while farmers will take lessons from no one, you're an expert.

Just on the 'NHS' management clear out my mate is the maintenance manager for our local hospital. Without him his guys don't know what to fix. Then there's HR, total waste except they do the recruitment, the accountants wh run the budget. The people who send the letters. I could go on but there's a lot of admin because there is a lot of admin. When I was in most of it was making sure they didn't operate on the wrong kidney. Then there were the dementia patients on my ward who ate up 90% of the nurses time. The drunks. Then we need to manage the cleaners. The people who fed me. The pharmacists who provided the medication. The porters.

And as for dropping algebra because its not used in the real world. I'm no good at it but holy crap your world is built on algebra. The list below is a sample but essentially all engineering needs it. Thank f**k you're not in charge....

Mathematician
Computer Programmer
Engineer
Data analyst
Maths Teacher.
astronomers
chemists
physicists
statisticians
REME
Naval Officers

Hook line and sinker ...........

 

[SilliamWhale]

There was lots of RAF kids boarding at my school, also loads of farmers kids. Could argue both taxpayer funded!

Everything is as all we do is print money

 

[gone]

“Anyone who was not a liberal at 20 years of age had no heart, while anyone who was still a liberal at 40 had no head.”​

― Winston S. Churchill
I am not sure the years quoted above are correct for the quote, but that aside it is a fairly universal truth.
It seems to me that young people in the west are becoming more and more disconnected from production and real work, very few now work in manufacturing, farming, or producing much of anything. They also are postponing marriage and having kids, they are not growing up and facing the real world, so socialism seems to be appealing for longer.

 

[Hilly]

In Scotland buses are free up to age 22. And of course for over 60s too. As well as uni fees, prescriptions, eye checks and personal care for the elderly.
I don't know exactly who pays for it. Some of those well off toffs who pay 45% tax

Vexes me some of things that are free in scotland , its just not right .

 

[Swarfmonkey]

I don’t have a problem paying tax as long as it is not wasted. The problem lies with the civil service not spending my money as if it was their own. Too many administrative empires across all public services created fo protect the people at the top from making day to day decisions. Take out layers of middle management by making it clear what the workers delivering the service need to do and provide them with the pay and kit to deliver.
Change the culture of the civil service so they concentrate on the product rather than the process.

The only way you'll change the culture of the civil service (and local government officers, come to that) is with a bloody great big stick. Damn near everything else has been tried over the years, and failed, so it's the last thing left to try.

 

[Interested in farming]

Hook line and sinker ...........

Cryptic.

 

[anzani]

The only way you'll change the culture of the civil service (and local government officers, come to that) is with a bloody great big stick. Damn near everything else has been tried over the years, and failed, so it's the last thing left to try.

Would you agree with me that if conscription is to be a thing, that this cohort should be front of the queue ?

 

[crashbox]

Listening to general public interviewed yesterday after the budget, all the younger (well they sounded it) were saying taxes should go up to pay for services etc. one older Irish guy said let people decide what they spend their money on. Made me think the younger generation would rather have all the services paid for by the state nearly to the point we may aswell become a communist state. Civil servants and politicians will decide how much money we get to keep and how much they will then waste on needless pc sh!t.

Maybe youngsters are simply angry that so much of their hard earned cash goes on rent/roof over their head that they've barely anything left for food or fun.

Free market would allow construction of more houses, but our planning system has more bureaucracy and red tape than I imagine a communist system does.

 

[crashbox]

Do you actually understand what a communist state is? Talk to poles, czechs and east germans who actually lived under real communism. People who risked torture, deportation to gulags and execution. People here have have no idea how good life here is compared to what happened in Russia or China.

I'll moan about taxes as much as the next guy but I'll never try and compare the pampered life we live here compared to those who suffered under it.

In any case people are more nuanced on this than the media portray. https://options2040.co.uk/public-opinion-and-taxation-the-surprising-reality/ - the bit on framing is important.

Very much respect this post.

But, for balance, such a level of poverty and strife can also happen in badly run democratic systems.

We just happen to be in rather a safe/good democracy, by comparison.

Consider North Korea; officially known as the DPRK (Democratic People's Republic of Korea)...

 

[neilo]

Maybe youngsters are simply angry that so much of their hard earned cash goes on rent/roof over their head that they've barely anything left for food or fun.

Free market would allow construction of more houses, but our planning system has more bureaucracy and red tape than I imagine a communist system does.

And of course, it's not in any housebuilder's interests to reduce that shortage by building too many.
Market forces at work.

 

[upnortheast]

I don’t have a problem paying tax as long as it is not wasted. The problem lies with the civil service not spending my money as if it was their own. Too many administrative empires across all public services created fo protect the people at the top from making day to day decisions. Take out layers of middle management by making it clear what the workers delivering the service need to do and provide them with the pay and kit to deliver.
Change the culture of the civil service so they concentrate on the product rather than the process.

Know someone ( a nurse ) who got a new job in the health service.
Work phone turned up, latest Iphone , value over £1000 my latest phone £100
Work Laptop. Enough beans to run a lunar landing mission. Value over £1500 Wife just bought one for £500
Sent to a conference in London Train tickets come from NHS purchasing £300 return Quick look on website that`s peak time cost. Move each journey 30 mins later Return ticket £100 Why have NHS not said to train operators. We are buying X tickets a month what about 15% discount
So that tiny example, If NHS purchasing had been doing a proper job the public purse could have been saved over £1000.

Dread to think what that total is every month

 

[crashbox]

And of course, it's not in any housebuilder's interests to reduce that shortage by building too many.
Market forces at work.

Fair point.

Though, ironically, if there are multiple housebuilders with multiple developments, they might get on quicker to sell to the market before it's saturated?

All hypothetical as nothing changing fast in the planning system, despite both main parties rhetoric about building more homes.