Autumn manure banned

[Bogweevil]

Can we all export our solid muck to Germany or France as the Dutch say they're doing above?
Holland has it's own problems, which it solves in it's own way.

UK bureaucracy adopts all the worst solutions from the rest of the world and forces them on us.

There is very little arable land in Nl compared to vast size of livestock enterprises.

Farmers in western livestock districts could export manure products to those in the eastern counties richer in arable land?

 

[Surgery]

More I think about this the more questions need to be answered.

finnish of large scale meat rearing

Finnish of maize

Finnish of digesters

finish of recycling bin waste

finish of sewage sludge

so what do the ea thinks a way forward reference human waste , everyone goes back to having a compost heap and a sh1t house at the bottom of the garden?

 

[teslacoils]

My hardcore eco friends are composting their own turds. They actually do take a dump, add sawdust, and keep shitting until full. Not sure how the EA consider this practice.

 

[roscoe erf]

My hardcore eco friends are composting their own turds. They actually do take a dump, add sawdust, and keep shitting until full. Not sure how the EA consider this practice.

times that by 60 million and its still an issue

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

My hardcore eco friends are composting their own turds. They actually do take a dump, add sawdust, and keep shitting until full. Not sure how the EA consider this practice.

20 years ago I helped set up a charity site with composting toilets. We had huge problems getting the EA (my colleagues at the time) to accept that the toilets could meet the rules

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

More I think about this the more questions need to be answered.

finnish of large scale meat rearing

Finnish of maize

Finnish of digesters

finish of recycling bin waste

finish of sewage sludge

so what do the ea thinks a way forward reference human waste , everyone goes back to having a compost heap and a sh1t house at the bottom of the garden?

Would certainly change the economics of big AD plants if they would only spread in April to June/July

Why would it finish Maize?

 

[Hindsight]

But RB209 doesn’t say organic manure MUST be applied in the late-winter to summer period, it just recommends it should be done then, if possible.
In many cases this would cause soil compaction which would result in increased NOx release and decreased nitrogen use efficiency (dig out your soil protect review which should say you can't do that), or result in significant crop damage again reducing nitrogen use efficiency.

Appreciate that the MUST is not included. (I have just spent 30 minutes decoding clomazone labels! To ensure I do not fall foul of the English Language) and thus why the RB209 wording is ambiguous. Now I would say we should be thankful to a group of forward thinking soil scientists who 'purposefully' left the RB209 manual 'open to interpretation' and not exactly a prescription manual. That approach has kept the greener side of the EA / DEFRA at bay for several years. In meantime DEFRA has gone down the nudge, nudge route encouraging farmers to better utilise nutrients, especially Nitrogen, thus spring applications. But I wonder if we are moving to a 'conflict period. no Idea. Cheers.

 

[teslacoils]

Would certainly change the economics of big AD plants if they would only spread in April to June/July

Yes, useful cereal digestate window is only really 8 weeks spreading time.

Although I'd be willing to grass more down and take more juice at say £5 a cube payment rate?

Surely the wise way would be to tighten the periods and ensure better application, but in return up the total allowed dose? So say up the total dose by 50 percent, but you must split in two applications no more than so close together?

I'm sure I could use double quite easily on grass with very little hassle. Otherwise, how can swapping it to bagged AN be a good thing?

 

[Breakthru]

Bham is already ok for clean water , fed by a pipeline from the Rhayader dams

Agreed just used it as an example of a spur on the way down. There would be a network involving canals that would be relatively easy and more useful than HS2

 

[Surgery]

Would certainly change the economics of big AD plants if they would only spread in April to June/July

Why would it finish Maize?

All the large beef boys etc around here plaster the ground before maize , yes it’s in the spring , but in return the farmers growing it get another heap of sh!t around here for the straw after it’s moved , who’s going to want muck delivered they can’t do anything with til lathe spring and after all if it comes wet in the next month a load of pre maize muck won’t get spread.

 

[Brisel]

There is very little arable land in Nl compared to vast size of livestock enterprises.

Yep, and they have phosphate balancing there already. I can see that coming our way.

Farmers in western livestock districts could export manure products to those in the eastern counties richer in arable land?

It's hideously expensive to haul that kind of bulk that distance, even with a backload of straw.

 

[teslacoils]

Phosphate vulnerable zones should, in effect, kill off sewage sludge application.

 

[Brisel]

Phosphate vulnerable zones should, in effect, kill off sewage sludge application.

Why? They don't stop phosphate application, like NVZs didn't stop nitrogen. They just regulate it more. The target will be the intensive livestock units buying in their phosphate as feed and then plastering the manure on thickly where soil indices are already 3+.

 

[Hilly]

times that by 60 million and its still an issue

70 now man keep
Up

 

[roscoe erf]

70 now man keep
Up

you been to town again man

 

[Hilly]

you been to town again man

Hell no ! I just count them rubber dingys coming in to land each day .

 

[Bogweevil]

Yep, and they have phosphate balancing there already. I can see that coming our way.



It's hideously expensive to haul that kind of bulk that distance, even with a backload of straw.

Yes, they do seem to be mega-concerned about P in NL agriculture - agricultural P pollution seems mainly to be a soil erosion problem in the UK though.

You would have to reduce volume/weight to move manures any distance - dry and pelletise poultry manure or slurry solids say, good stuff but not currently economically viable compared to bagged NPK. But if the only legal alternative is to pass it through a sewage works it may stack up as it seems to in NL.

 

[Hindsight]

Yes, they do seem to be mega-concerned about P in NL agriculture - agricultural P pollution seems mainly to be a soil erosion problem in the UK though.

You would have to reduce volume/weight to move manures any distance - dry and pelletise poultry manure or slurry solids say, good stuff but not currently economically viable compared to bagged NPK. But if the only legal alternative is to pass it through a sewage works it may stack up as it seems to in NL.

Eutrophication

 

[steveR]

Bham is already ok for clean water , fed by a pipeline from the Rhayader dams

All that sheep poo!!!

 

[R J]

All that sheep poo!!!

yum , packed with goodness...