autumn re-seeding

Location
Ceredigion
But you just made the statement and now back tracking?




So you say organic needs to plough...but you don't know why?

Heres another sweeping statement for you.
All conventional farmers spray pesticides.
Get of your high horse - i have no idea if you need to plough or not . I'm not put any thought into it
And every farm and soil is different, I can only comment on what works on my farm
 

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
It's all about being flexible.
Never say never. Saying I'm never going to plough again you will one day have to eat your words! You can prefer not to plough but the key to being a good farmer is not to have anything set in stone!
 

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
Ok I should not assume that if you can't spray you may need to plough sometimes
What I should have said was I have no idea how an organic farmer reseeds without sprays and without using a plough
Correct.

You may have to create a barsteward fallow allow more time between passes with discs.
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
well, all i know, is my 2 organic neighbours, continually plough, very often x3 in 2 yrs, can't see that promoting organics. The plough obviously has a place, but it is also very destructive, and there are now, alternatives, which can be successfully used, and reduce fuel usage, to get there. Which, would appear to promote the 'ethos' of organic farming better . The common denominator of all forms, of farming, is soil structure, improve that, better things follow on.
 
To many disadvantages with ploughing for me -like I said if I get a few thin patches just top it up - but i would just shallow disc otherwise.
I may be old fashion but the old guys would give me a slap for ploughing more than 3 inches so a shallow disc suits me fine- you can't find the staff to spend days picking stone either and I'm trying to get rid of weeds not plough them up
Weed grasses.

Show me the same ley in 3 years times.

Best way to avoid the need for a plough around here is have a different crop prior to reseeding.
 
Location
Ceredigion
Weed grasses.

Show me the same ley in 3 years times.

Best way to avoid the need for a plough around here is have a different crop prior to reseeding.
Its not weed grasses- the piece I in the same field is still clean I did not drill - and I sprayed it twice 6 weeks apart so I think that and weeds going to come got taken out, like this chickweed I sprayed this week - that was sprayed a month ago . Next time I'm going to tine harrow a week after spraying to get more weeds grow
20200915_145210.jpg
 
Its not weed grasses- the piece I in the same field is still clean I did not drill - and I sprayed it twice 6 weeks apart so I think that and weeds going to come got taken out, like this chickweed I sprayed this week - that was sprayed a month ago . Next time I'm going to tine harrow a week after spraying to get more weeds grow View attachment 907826
That isn't weed grass.

We grasses will emerge from your seed bank and proliferate unless it is ploughed (one of the reasons for ploughing) or you have controlled them in a previous crop. This is one of the benefits of crop rotation and a negative factor associated with grass to grass reseeding.

I have nothing against min-till or direct drilling but the idea that a plough is just a problematic tool that isn't ever needed isn't entirely true in my view. It certainly does have a place.

Also, as I have said many many times, a broad leaved weed infestation should never be used as a sole justification for reseeding. They can be readily controlled at far less cost even if you have to spray 3 times to get rid of them, it would still be far cheaper than a full blown reseed. It is the prevalence of weed grasses that should dedicate the need (or not) of a reseed being needed.
 
Location
Ceredigion
That isn't weed grass.

We grasses will emerge from your seed bank and proliferate unless it is ploughed (one of the reasons for ploughing) or you have controlled them in a previous crop. This is one of the benefits of crop rotation and a negative factor associated with grass to grass reseeding.

I have nothing against min-till or direct drilling but the idea that a plough is just a problematic tool that isn't ever needed isn't entirely true in my view. It certainly does have a place.

Also, as I have said many many times, a broad leaved weed infestation should never be used as a sole justification for reseeding. They can be readily controlled at far less cost even if you have to spray 3 times to get rid of them, it would still be far cheaper than a full blown reseed. It is the prevalence of weed grasses that should dedicate the need (or not) of a reseed being needed.
Sorry but I have ploughed land here for 50 years and if its left unseeded it will green over with grass within 6 weeks just the same as if its sprayed of - weeds grasses or self seeded grasses are in the soil as a seed bank not just lying on top - so if I burn off -rest and Burn of again 6 weeks later this is a far better way of reducing weed grassing germinating in a new ley than ploughing and to Control Chickweed in a new clover ley will cost a small fortune -
 
Sorry but I have ploughed land here for 50 years and if its left unseeded it will green over with grass within 6 weeks just the same as if its sprayed of - weeds grasses or self seeded grasses are in the soil as a seed bank not just lying on top - so if I burn off -rest and Burn of again 6 weeks later this is a far better way of reducing weed grassing germinating in a new ley than ploughing and to Control Chickweed in a new clover ley will cost a small fortune -
I'm not sure what you arguing exactly. Yes, it will green over with weed grasses and other weeds- there is an established weed seed bank in the uppermost layers of the soil as I have said previously. Burning it again 6 weeks later won't do much in this regard as they do not all emerge in one go unfortunately. This is the problem with methods that do not invert the soil to bring up dirt which has a lower weed seed burden, within a short space of time the weed grasses are able to proliferate and dominate the new ley. It can be worse if there is significant couch rhizomes or other species are present.

Controlling chickweed in a new ley is childsplay and does not cost a lot of money at all, could be the cheapest grassland spraying people will ever do actually.
 

hally

Member
Location
cumbria
Really, if it was that simple why haven’t they applied for a license for this use, surely it would be a massive seller considering the scale of the grass seed market? ( not having a go by the way, genuinely interested why the chemical companies can’t get a clover safe product to market).
 
Really, if it was that simple why haven’t they applied for a license for this use, surely it would be a massive seller considering the scale of the grass seed market? ( not having a go by the way, genuinely interested why the chemical companies can’t get a clover safe product to market).
IDK if triad is still available but it certainly was when I was still doing the job and I used it many times. It was a bit limited in what it did though. Had zero effect on established weeds and really only did chickweed well. Hence I always told people if they wanted a ley with clover in it they would be best to put it into land that had already been cleaned up in another crop.
 

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