B275 Again

[averageguy54]

I've just come into a bit of money and it occurs to me that I should invest some in an "In-frame kit" for my tractor. Since it would likely be cheaper to buy another tractor than to get this kit from International I am looking at aftermarket kits. I've seen a lot from China and a few from India and I'm wondering if I might be better off with the Indian stuff, which is likely Mahindra based. Or is there somewhere in England that makes a decent one? Looking for experiences or opinions, bearing in mind it's not out earning its keep everyday, more of a light duty thing kinda like the owner, retired.

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

What is an "in frame kit"

 

[gmgmgm]

"in frame kit" is an American / North American term for a replacement engine kit I think... averageguy54 you might want to word this for a UK audience and explain what you actually want to achieve?

 

[averageguy54]

Yes, this is how we learn the differences in each others daily usage of language. When I look it up on-line over here this is what you have to type in. It is a kit that usually includes new cylinder sleeves and pistons, rings, bearings and gaskets. A basic diesel overhaul package. Some of the better ones will let you request oversize bearings for the crankshaft.

 

[X344chap]

Rebuilt kit for the BD144 engine is about £240 - or $300 in US currency. Its not big money and plenty of folks will ship overseas.

Just checked and they are $450 to $1000 purchased in the USA depending on whether you want pistons and liners only or the works including shells and bearings.

 

[startinghandle]

The B275 engine is straight forward to overhaul but what is condition of rest of tractor?
If the other components are ok such as brakes and hydraulics and clutch then consider overhauling engine as you will then have better tractor than anything made in India or China

 

[averageguy54]

This is why I was inquiring, last year I rebuilt the injector pump. I had a price from a company in Sheffield for about 550 English pounds ( no emblem on the keyboard) and instead got talked into paying 925 English pounds locally for the same job. I only found this site after the fact. Once bitten, twice shy.

Over here, $1000 US would be just about the value of my tractor in its current state, very low compression but can be started. A new rebuild kit will put it's value up to about $2500 -$3000 US, but I don't want to spend most of that getting it fixed if possible. So this is why I'm hoping to hear from experiences, either good or bad, especially on sourcing parts. For example, Would I be okay ordering from e-bay or better off from e-bay.uk, or maybe from a distributor in England directly? If I order from a company based in India, so supposedly Mahindra made parts, or are they just Chinese parts that moved, does anyone know?

 

[startinghandle]

I would suggest getting parts from uk supplier ....emmark are reputable company and if you are thinking am I on a bonus the answer is no but you need to check a number of things first like crankshaft bearing size and is it the B275 engine or perhaps it could have been changed sometime for the bigger engine

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

full kit is about £230, big ends and mains about £45,
easy to rebuild simple and straight forward

I have had many kits off "Engine fix UK", and never a problem and good kits,

keep away from the china and indian market

 

[averageguy54]

This kind of information is what I was looking for. Over here these tractors are not particularly common so parts and service are at best sporadic and a little too pricey in my opinion. I'm sure it's the correct BD144 engine so that's not an issue, but it will have to come apart to get a big end bearing size. I suspect the crankshaft will have to be turned, so they will need to be oversize.

When I look these kits up over here almost everything is "Made in China", and there's only one or two places that aren't an e-bay listing. When I talk to my local dealer about them he looks at me like I grew a third eyeball, and gave me an approximate cost of $2000 US. I'm guessing he doesn't want to deal with it.

I'm not worried if someone is "on bonus", startinghandle as long as it's decent kit.

Thank you both for the help. I'll keep you posted on results.

 

[X344chap]

Its worth tearing it down for a look and check before spending any money - i've sorted a few BD144 engines that only needed some new rings and valves reground. I've also replaced individual liners and individual pistons when required without any problems.

Btw - you said low compression - have you actually measured it - or are you describing the typical poor starting of the unmaintained BD144?

 

[averageguy54]

It was showing almost 4000hrs when I took the pump off to get it rebuilt. When I put the pump back on I could turn the engine over with a regular sized 1/2" ratchet. I have to use glow plugs and "joy juice"(ether) and heat to get it to start. Turn the glow plugs on until the button is red, stick the blow torch in the breather and turn it over for a couple minutes, substitute the blow torch for a quick shot of ether.Repeat if necessary. I have since replaced the ether with combustible brake cleaner or carburator cleaner, both of which will do the same job without the risk of damage.

I'm not going to spend any money until I have it apart but I'm pretty sure this is where it's going to end up based on the above. My two sons have promised help and both are diesel mechanics, just not tractors.

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

I know it may sound daft, but check the valve clearance when you take rocker cover off to dismantle the engine,
does it breathe heavily out of the breather on top of the rocker cover

 

[X344chap]

It was showing almost 4000hrs when I took the pump off to get it rebuilt. When I put the pump back on I could turn the engine over with a regular sized 1/2" ratchet. I have to use glow plugs and "joy juice"(ether) and heat to get it to start. Turn the glow plugs on until the button is red, stick the blow torch in the breather and turn it over for a couple minutes, substitute the blow torch for a quick shot of ether.Repeat if necessary. I have since replaced the ether with combustible brake cleaner or carburator cleaner, both of which will do the same job without the risk of damage.

I'm not going to spend any money until I have it apart but I'm pretty sure this is where it's going to end up based on the above. My two sons have promised help and both are diesel mechanics, just not tractors.

So it is a starting problem then. You need to take the glow plugs out and screw a diesel compression tester in as a starting point to find out whats going on. Did you test/replace the injector nozzles when you overhauled the pump? Was it the dpa rotary pump or the earlier bpe4 pump you had overhauled?

 

[startinghandle]

Your starting procedure reminds me of a IH2276 digger/loader from 15 years ago which was the same .... after fitting new pistons and liners and valves and machining valve seats it stated perfect
I would advise against just fitting new rings for 2 reasons
1- 40 years ago I worked at main IH dealer and the boss said just put new rings in a s/h B414 and he told the customer that it had complete overhaul but after 3 months it was blowing out from dipstick tube
2-I put new rings in my petter single cylinder sawbench engine because I don't use it much and that blows out from oil filler... I should have known better and spent another £60 fitting new piston and barrel

I assume your engine is blowing from dipstick tube and oil filler
Have you cleaned air filter bowl?
I put a 200 to 1 ratio of universal 2 stroke oil in the diesel for my sawbench engine to make up for low sulphur fuel and it starts and runs better
I could go on but that is enough for now

 

[MrNoo]

I have one of those engines in a OSR swather and it is the best starting engine on the farm, not sure how many hours it's done (was a pea viner in a previous life) I could go and put a battery on it now, turn the key until the pepperpot glows and then away she would go. Sometimes she has not been started for several years but she'll always start, maybe it's just a good one?

 

[averageguy54]

At least one of the boys is expected on the weekend, so we'll try these suggestions and report back.

 

[X344chap]

Your starting procedure reminds me of a IH2276 digger/loader from 15 years ago which was the same .... after fitting new pistons and liners and valves and machining valve seats it stated perfect
I would advise against just fitting new rings for 2 reasons
1- 40 years ago I worked at main IH dealer and the boss said just put new rings in a s/h B414 and he told the customer that it had complete overhaul but after 3 months it was blowing out from dipstick tube
2-I put new rings in my petter single cylinder sawbench engine because I don't use it much and that blows out from oil filler... I should have known better and spent another £60 fitting new piston and barrel

I assume your engine is blowing from dipstick tube and oil filler
Have you cleaned air filter bowl?
I put a 200 to 1 ratio of universal 2 stroke oil in the diesel for my sawbench engine to make up for low sulphur fuel and it starts and runs better
I could go on but that is enough for now

You need to measure the wear in the cylinder before deciding to replace the liner. If its not worn - you dont need to replace it and they can be a sod to get them out.

Don't put 2 stroke in diesel - it gives no benefit at all and can cause other problems. Read the study on it done by Adrian Velaers of SASOL.

 

[startinghandle]

You need to measure the wear in the cylinder before deciding to replace the liner. If its not worn - you dont need to replace it and they can be a sod to get them out.

Don't put 2 stroke in diesel - it gives no benefit at all and can cause other problems. Read the study on it done by Adrian Velaers of SASOL.

It was on an American site that I read putting a small amount of universal 2 stroke oil in diesel replaces some additives in low sulphur fuel and as I said using 200 to 1 in my petter sawbench greatly improves starting especially when hand cranking in cold weather and running and it sounds better also .... on the same site it also said ATF fluid can be used
I have never had any problems removing wet liners from IH tractors using home made pullers
Regarding cylinder wear ... it is possible to have little wear but you don't know what use the tractor has had and is possible there is little wear in cylinder but if tractor has been used for light use the cylinder could be glazed and with the low cost of engine
Overhaul kits it makes sense to renew
I have account with one of the largest suppliers or tractor parts in UK and I am prepared to supply the guy in Canada with what he needs at a very good price as I am not greedy and I might want favour in return sometime

 

[startinghandle]

I should add that I have removed liners that are badly corroded where in contact with coolant