Balansa clover

[Kevtherev]

Full disclosure here. I am the breeder of the only USA variety. That being said, many of the Aussie varieties are similar. Of the Aussie varieties, I like Viper as it looks to be pretty good. Most of the Aussie varieties are fairly early maturing and will be suitable for grazing in the UK. In comparison, maturity is similar to a Crimson.

We have been trialing our variety at one of the northern NIAB stations for the last two years. Also there are few growers throughout the UK that have been testing. We and the company that we work with, Germinal, want to make sure it will do what we say prior to bringing it to market.

If you have any questions ask, I will try to be fair to the Aussie varieties.

Tell us a bit more about your company and the varieties please and a few pictures would be most interesting [emoji106]

 

[Kiwi Pete]

find out what variety Kev is growing. Big difference between varieties, size and maturity

Welcome to the madhouse that is TFF!

Which variety would suit sheep grazing the best, I rotationally graze lambs and ewes here as well as young cattle. Gets too cold and wet for lucerne, which doesn't persist long.
I'm looking for something that can handle being decked right down and come away fast, also clover root weevil is becoming quite an issue here for reducing the white clover content of pastures. Some areas worse than others but many farmers are worried.
Typically, sheep farmers here use smaller leaved, more prostrate white clovers to help with persistence, and provide better groundcovering to help conserve moisture and prevent weed ingress

 

[jlhall2]

Sorry if i'm reading this the wrong wayBut that last line seems to insinuate that there is something wrong with the Australian varieties....When you also stated that many of them are similar to yours. We have been growing balansa here since 85. I have tried all the ones on our market and as i said you would be hard pressed to pick the difference. As a dairy farmer , generally we are pretty quick to adopt new technologies and i readily try new varieties of grasses ,lucerne , clovers and oats etc etc. I've come back to paradana as the price difference isn't justified in my opinion.

Nothing wrong with the Aussie varieties in Australia. The UK isn't Australia so there are some things wrong with them for there. Same as to the USA,where the Aussie varieties are suitable for about 10% of the country. That being said, that is why we have been testing Fixation around the UK and Europe for the last two years. I want to know where it will work and where it will not. I want to optimize the success for the farmer and minimize the failures, to do otherwise is irresponsible as a seed merchant.

The Australian varieties have been bred for performance for drier conditions. As a result most are early maturing, get the growth before you run out of moisture. The Australian varieties lack the cold tolerance to persist in most of the USA. They will winterkill. We haven't seen a variety that will go to -10 C. without snow cover.

While the Australian varieties are similar to each other they are different from Fixation. Fixation is up to 4 weeks later in maturity than the Aussie varieties. Fixation will persist under colder temperatures, we have documented -25C without snow cover. Fixation is similar in growth to the Aussie varieties up to the flowering stage. Being later in maturity, it continues to grow long after the Aussie varieties are done. That equals more biomass. Our top dry matter yields are in 9-11,000 lbs./Acre in a single cutting in those same trials the Aussie varieties are 30 - 50% less. The higher latitude of the UK means likely to see less growth than in either Oregon or Australia. How much? Well that is why we are trialing throughout the UK and Europe.

I would encourage people to test new genetics on a small scale, if you like it then plant more the next year. If there are things that you kind of like try a different variety the next year. What pisses me off is when seed merchants make claims that they cannot back up because they do not trial or when they assume all varieties are the same. Different soils, climates, and location can lead to vastly different results. Anyone that states their variety is suitable for planting everywhere is likely to be lying.

 

[jlhall2]

Tell us a bit more about your company and the varieties please and a few pictures would be most interesting [emoji106]

My company, Grassland Oregon, is a breeder and marketer of amenity, forage, and cover crop seeds. Here is a background video on the company

Here is a photo that I posted on twitter of Fixation growing next to Frontier, an Australian variety. This was taken in the state of Missouri. Low temperature -15C https://t.co/n8K57BUObc I post a lot on twitter under @grasslandjerry

More information on Fixation Balansa Clover can be found at www.fixationclover.com

We are the representatives of IBERS products (aber high sugar grasses) in North America. We search the world over for the best genetics to add to our own stable. It is a lot of fun because we get to meet a lot of good people along the way. Our goal is to help provide novel solutions to the growing concerns of farmers. For example, when asked by a group of Irish dairy farmers in SW Missouri to help them find a ryegrass that would work in their hot, humid climate we were able to utilise our connections to supply them with a variety called Albion that was bred in France.

Farming is hard, our goal is to make it easier and more sustainable

 

[Kevtherev]

Nothing wrong with the Aussie varieties in Australia. The UK isn't Australia so there are some things wrong with them for there. Same as to the USA,where the Aussie varieties are suitable for about 10% of the country. That being said, that is why we have been testing Fixation around the UK and Europe for the last two years. I want to know where it will work and where it will not. I want to optimize the success for the farmer and minimize the failures, to do otherwise is irresponsible as a seed merchant.

The Australian varieties have been bred for performance for drier conditions. As a result most are early maturing, get the growth before you run out of moisture. The Australian varieties lack the cold tolerance to persist in most of the USA. They will winterkill. We haven't seen a variety that will go to -10 C. without snow cover.

While the Australian varieties are similar to each other they are different from Fixation. Fixation is up to 4 weeks later in maturity than the Aussie varieties. Fixation will persist under colder temperatures, we have documented -25C without snow cover. Fixation is similar in growth to the Aussie varieties up to the flowering stage. Being later in maturity, it continues to grow long after the Aussie varieties are done. That equals more biomass. Our top dry matter yields are in 9-11,000 lbs./Acre in a single cutting in those same trials the Aussie varieties are 30 - 50% less. The higher latitude of the UK means likely to see less growth than in either Oregon or Australia. How much? Well that is why we are trialing throughout the UK and Europe.

I would encourage people to test new genetics on a small scale, if you like it then plant more the next year. If there are things that you kind of like try a different variety the next year. What pisses me off is when seed merchants make claims that they cannot back up because they do not trial or when they assume all varieties are the same. Different soils, climates, and location can lead to vastly different results. Anyone that states their variety is suitable for planting everywhere is likely to be lying.

We are indeed planting or sowing as it's referred to in the uk under a small scale.
There is a trial ongoing in Wales that's been running for 2-3 years by Charlie Morgan (the grassman)
No one as I'm aware has stated that the variety is suitable everywhere?

 

[Kevtherev]

My company, Grassland Oregon, is a breeder and marketer of amenity, forage, and cover crop seeds. Here is a background video on the company

Here is a photo that I posted on twitter of Fixation growing next to Frontier, an Australian variety. This was taken in the state of Missouri. Low temperature -15C https://t.co/n8K57BUObc I post a lot on twitter under @grasslandjerry

More information on Fixation Balansa Clover can be found at www.fixationclover.com

We are the representatives of IBERS products (aber high sugar grasses) in North America. We search the world over for the best genetics to add to our own stable. It is a lot of fun because we get to meet a lot of good people along the way. Our goal is to help provide novel solutions to the growing concerns of farmers. For example, when asked by a group of Irish dairy farmers in SW Missouri to help them find a ryegrass that would work in their hot, humid climate we were able to utilise our connections to supply them with a variety called Albion that was bred in France.

Farming is hard, our goal is to make it easier and more sustainable

@Great In Grass will love your connection with IBERS and the Aberystwyth high sugar grasses [emoji849]

 

[Great In Grass]

@Great In Grass will love your connection with IBERS and the Aberystwyth high sugar grasses [emoji849]

@jlhall2 must of got an inkling a couple of days ago when he un-followed me on Twitter.

 

[beefandsleep]

My pure red clover yielded 10000 pounds/acre (11.2kg/ha) dry matter over 2 cuts plus autumn and winter grazing for store lambs last year. Am I likely to see better performance from balansa than that given it will last 3 years?

 

[jlhall2]

My pure red clover yielded 10000 pounds/acre (11.2kg/ha) dry matter over 2 cuts plus autumn and winter grazing for store lambs last year. Am I likely to see better performance from balansa than that given it will last 3 years?

Not likely to see more yield, but you will see better quality. Balansa has higher crude protein and better feed value than red. Also, balansa doesn't seem to have the estrogen issues that some/most of the red clovers do. Balansa has a hollow stem so dry down time is good. One interesting thing we saw over here is that the sheep love the balansa straw after seed harvest, actually put on weight

I like red clover and it definitely has it's place, we market it over here primarily in pasture mixes. We recently licensed a variety that is 2,4-D tolerant (non-gmo)

 

[jlhall2]

@jlhall2 must of got an inkling a couple of days ago when he un-followed me on Twitter.

Sorry for unfollowing you. I periodically add and delete on twitter. I don't like following more than 2x than are following me. You likely got unfollowed because you weren't following back. I don't spend a lot of time on who I unfollow. My primary objective on twitter it to gain a better understanding of the needs and trends in the industry. My tweets usually center around my products, and information that I find interesting.

I am fairly new to twitter and wasn't even aware people could tell when I unfollowed them. Sorry if I offended you.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

What time of year does it set seed over there?
Here, pasture is predominantly ryegrass which is generally putting up flags around October (southern hemisphere, probably equivalent of mid april for you guys)
It would be a bit of a benefit if it would drop seed before I cut for silage, which is why I havent jumped straight on it. I have good white clover here and then red really takes off over summer, its more for winter growth I'm looking at options.

I should add to this, that most often silage would be cut in December here (June) and just keen to know if I'd be upsetting balansa by cutting it too early or too late for it's natural reproductive cycle.

 

[cows sh#t me to tears]

Pete, it won't drop seed before you would cut it for silage. If you waited till it was wanting to drop seed the quality wouldn't be there for the silage. Even for hay, generally it only drops seed as its drying down and with the thrashing process of raking.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Pete, it won't drop seed before you would cut it for silage. If you waited till it was wanting to drop seed the quality wouldn't be there for the silage. Even for hay, generally it only drops seed as its drying down and with the thrashing process of raking.

Would I interrupt it a little too much if I cut November December for it to "do it's thing" after that? Thanks

 

[cows sh#t me to tears]

This last spring just gone it was quite wet here( the Murray was in flood in October). We were at least 3 to 4 weeks later than normal cutting silage and hay. In that time the balansa keeps growing and starts to get very stemmy. Whilst it still makes reasonable feed the quality isn't the same as if we had been able to cut at the optimal time.

 

[cows sh#t me to tears]

I've cut early once and had it regrow enough to cut again. Unfortunately we then had 100 mm in 3 rain events and I didn't bother baling it. Generally some will come back naturally the following year but if you were after a good pure stand the following year I would treat it as an annual and resow it

 

[Kiwi Pete]

This last spring just gone it was quite wet here( the Murray was in flood in October). We were at least 3 to 4 weeks later than normal cutting silage and hay. In that time the balansa keeps growing and starts to get very stemmy. Whilst it still makes reasonable feed the quality isn't the same as if we had been able to cut at the optimal time.

So did my red clover here, for much the same reason, weather
It ended up about 3 feet long and stemmy enough for my liking by the time the grass got its A into G.
Hard to know just how far I can go with all these different species and varieties before it gets too difficult to manage, but I think it will work fine here to smother my rubbishy grass out at least, judging by the results you Ant and @jlhall2 are getting... browntop won't have much chance

 

[cows sh#t me to tears]

Edit: All advice I can give is based purely on 30 years experience on our farm here in Aus....As it hasn't really been grown there before, conditions may vary dramatically. Please take this into consideration.

It may not bulk up there if its sown in spring as opposed to autumn here? As above , wait till Kev comes back with his results.

As for what to sow over their. just give what you've got a go first...It may work fine for you or it may be a total failure??? If it works then you can refine it with different lines to suit yourselves.

Nothing wrong with the Aussie varieties in Australia. The UK isn't Australia so there are some things wrong with them for there. Same as to the USA,where the Aussie varieties are suitable for about 10% of the country. That being said, that is why we have been testing Fixation around the UK and Europe for the last two years. I want to know where it will work and where it will not. I want to optimize the success for the farmer and minimize the failures, to do otherwise is irresponsible as a seed merchant.

The Australian varieties have been bred for performance for drier conditions. As a result most are early maturing, get the growth before you run out of moisture. The Australian varieties lack the cold tolerance to persist in most of the USA. They will winterkill. We haven't seen a variety that will go to -10 C. without snow cover.

While the Australian varieties are similar to each other they are different from Fixation. Fixation is up to 4 weeks later in maturity than the Aussie varieties. Fixation will persist under colder temperatures, we have documented -25C without snow cover. Fixation is similar in growth to the Aussie varieties up to the flowering stage. Being later in maturity, it continues to grow long after the Aussie varieties are done. That equals more biomass. Our top dry matter yields are in 9-11,000 lbs./Acre in a single cutting in those same trials the Aussie varieties are 30 - 50% less. The higher latitude of the UK means likely to see less growth than in either Oregon or Australia. How much? Well that is why we are trialing throughout the UK and Europe.

I would encourage people to test new genetics on a small scale, if you like it then plant more the next year. If there are things that you kind of like try a different variety the next year. What pisses me off is when seed merchants make claims that they cannot back up because they do not trial or when they assume all varieties are the same. Different soils, climates, and location can lead to vastly different results. Anyone that states their variety is suitable for planting everywhere is likely to be lying.

I think from the above it's pretty clear all through this thread that i have merely been sharing my experiences with 32 years of growing it on our farm, and that i have consistantly said in this thread that the UK guys will have to find out for themselves how it grows , when to sow and what to do with it, as i am fully aware that "Different soils, climates, and location can lead to vastly different results."
We have large scale irrigation in my patch of Australia (the largest private irrigation company in Aus to be exact). I would be quite willing to give your stuff a go next Autumn here (march / april sowing) to see how it goes. Spring irrigation if required tends to depend on the water allocation at the start of the season, Which can be a very low opening allocation which can build later if inflows to the major storages allow . This as you say is generally why paradana and the like fit well for us. It's usually done it's thing and requires little to no irrigation to finish. That being said if there's water available and yours can yield better i'd like to try it One question i do have for you is the yield that you claim , how is that measured? Is it green chop weighed? or it weighed as a dry matter baled basis? I regularly see 4 to 5 tonne to the acre as a dry matter basis in big square hay bales (8/10 bales /ac)

 

[jlhall2]

I think from the above it's pretty clear all through this thread that i have merely been sharing my experiences with 32 years of growing it on our farm, and that i have consistantly said in this thread that the UK guys will have to find out for themselves how it grows , when to sow and what to do with it, as i am fully aware that "Different soils, climates, and location can lead to vastly different results."
We have large scale irrigation in my patch of Australia (the largest private irrigation company in Aus to be exact). I would be quite willing to give your stuff a go next Autumn here (march / april sowing) to see how it goes. Spring irrigation if required tends to depend on the water allocation at the start of the season, Which can be a very low opening allocation which can build later if inflows to the major storages allow . This as you say is generally why paradana and the like fit well for us. It's usually done it's thing and requires little to no irrigation to finish. That being said if there's water available and yours can yield better i'd like to try it One question i do have for you is the yield that you claim , how is that measured? Is it green chop weighed? or it weighed as a dry matter baled basis? I regularly see 4 to 5 tonne to the acre as a dry matter basis in big square hay bales (8/10 bales /ac)

Yield I quoted is dry matter baled. Green biomass is a heck of a lot more but, as you know, is a lot of water.

Here is a video of how it grows in Oregon

In Australia you can get it at Pasture Genetics as 'Longhaul' http://pasturegenetics.com/seed/longhaul-balansa-clover/

 

[jlhall2]

I've cut early once and had it regrow enough to cut again. Unfortunately we then had 100 mm in 3 rain events and I didn't bother baling it. Generally some will come back naturally the following year but if you were after a good pure stand the following year I would treat it as an annual and resow it

I agree, need to cut balansa early if you are going to see it regrow. If you wait until you see flower buds, likely you waited to long. Have to catch it before it goes reproductive.

If you want growth further into the summer, you should try a multi-cut berseem.

 

[cows sh#t me to tears]

I'll be giving it a crack next year