Ban Non stun slaughter

[neilo]

Lets test it and ask the head when its on the floor. Whos first ?

Presumably they were volunteers before, if they were asked to blink?

Were they asking them to blink or poking them in the eye?

Blink and look at things.

 

[neilo]

there are many abattoirs across the uk i guess your experiences as mine can not be of that many killings of our stock to actually know a true picture across the uk of this, unless you have worked as a vet or worker in different plants, in which i of cause stand corrected.

No, but I am suddenly suspicious of our new member @sustainable24 's motives, given the comment I highlighted.

I have seen it done with a sharp knife a few times and there was certainly no more fuss or suffering than whenever I've seen it done in abattoirs. That's not to say that I don't agree with the principle that stunning should be the default.

 

[Hilly]

Presumably they were volunteers before, if they were asked to blink?

I think they were officially involuntary volunteers .

 

[neilo]

I think they were officially involuntary volunteers .

Does that mean the blinking was an involuntary response too?

 

[Hilly]

Does that mean the blinking was an involuntary response too?

This is why we need volunteer to clarify, whos first !?

 

[neilo]

This is why we need volunteer to clarify, whos first !?

Hopefully the head honcho at Red Tractor will be looking for a new position shortly...

 

[Macsky]

Lets test it and ask the head when its on the floor. Whos first ?

Well it was your proposal….

 

[Hilly]

Hopefully the head honcho at Red Tractor will be looking for a new position shortly...

Well ive a list fairly long but ive a funny feeling sadly they will all be involuntary volunteers , but … the pigs need fed regardless …..

 

[Hilly]

Well it was your proposal….

Hey ive declared neutrality ! Cant touch me

 

[Macsky]

Hey ive declared neutrality ! Cant touch me

I’m entirely neutral on the subject too, just asking genuine questions, try to avoid entirely binary positions in a lot of things these days, not many folk are entirely right about anything.

 

[sustainable24]

No, but I am suddenly suspicious of our new member @sustainable24 's motives, given the comment I highlighted.

I have seen it done with a sharp knife a few times and there was certainly no more fuss or suffering than whenever I've seen it done in abattoirs. That's not to say that I don't agree with the principle that stunning should be the default.

Perhaps you read to much into things? I mean it would be nicer from the lambs perspective wouldn't it if they didn't go to slaughter. Myself I love a lamb doner and roast lamb but I don't eat the meat very often (and if I can't be guaranteed how the animal was killed perhaps I'll eat it even less.) AlsoI'll remain dubious about non stun kills being 'no more fuss' than conventional killing, its certainly not what I have witnessed before. You may have witnessed not much commotion or heard much noise from non stun kills but the idea that it is the same amount of pain as conventional killing is surely false.

 

[Macsky]

AlsoI'll remain dubious about non stun kills being 'no more fuss' than conventional killing, its certainly not what I have witnessed before. You may have witnessed not much commotion or heard much noise from non stun kills but the idea that it is the same amount of pain as conventional killing is surely false.

What have you witnessed before?

 

[soapsud]

Perhaps you read to much into things? I mean it would be nicer from the lambs perspective wouldn't it if they didn't go to slaughter. Myself I love a lamb doner and roast lamb but I don't eat the meat very often (and if I can't be guaranteed how the animal was killed perhaps I'll eat it even less.) AlsoI'll remain dubious about non stun kills being 'no more fuss' than conventional killing, its certainly not what I have witnessed before. You may have witnessed not much commotion or heard much noise from non stun kills but the idea that it is the same amount of pain as conventional killing is surely false.

Lay out your views on pain receptors and pain avoidance.

Here's mine:
To feel pain we must be conscious. To be conscious our neurons need to be firing. The brain needs oxygenated blood flow for neurons to work. Blood sugar is important too. As are hormones (like adrenaline, cortisol, etc). No blood, no consciousness.

The complication is the heart has neurons too. I had a relative I was visiting in hospital whose pace maker suddenly failed whilst we were sat with her chatting. She passed out instantly. We saw her pulse had stopped on the monitor. We called the nurses and they pushed us away and revived her. Later,our relative said if that incident was like death then she had nothing to worry about. And nor should we. She said one moment everything was fine and then all of a sudden all went black. No pain, no sensation. Nothing. She said she was clinically dead for a little while then too.

In short, the heart has no pain receptors. And the central nervous system can still seemingly respond after brain death.

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

Having seen professional slaughtermen working in the UK and in NZ using very sharp knives in a quiet well managed system then often the stunning can be the noisiest and most disturbing part of the whole process.
I remember seeing a plant in NZ killing up to 5,000 a day where the slaughtermen were using such sharp knives that often the heads fell off into the blood gutter. I believe virtually all NZ plants are Halal approved.

 

[kiwi pom]

i would not take to much notice of the rather opinionated nZ posters many of us agree totally with banning non stun method , if nothing else i would say it is bad pr for selling meat to the rest of uk population, because betty and John from blackpool certainly will be put of meat products if they knew the religious sop being given , as with the poster back a bit, ban it in uk and the import of meat slaughtered in this way , if you want to eat meat in this country , then it is killed stunned way, end off,

There doesn't seem to be that many on here who actually know what goes on a slaughterhouse, myself included (and I hope I never have to work in one) I'm saying be careful what you wish for, and I wouldn't raise the subject too much with the general public either.

Not sure what's so outrageous about that opinion.

Did you watch the video posted above, could you see animals dying in agony? I couldn't.

 

[Macsky]

A major point that always needs to be raised when faced with unjust accusations of wanton cruelty and unnecessary suffering around the issue of slaughter, is that nature doesn’t offer many better alternatives…. disease/ predation/ starvation/ dehydration/ exposure/ misadventure….

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

A major point that always needs to be raised when faced with unjust accusations of wanton cruelty and unnecessary suffering around the issue of slaughter, is that nature doesn’t offer many better alternatives…. disease/ predation/ starvation/ dehydration/ exposure/ misadventure….

You are absolutely correct and how many injured, lame or just poor doers because of past management get left on farms because there isn't a way of getting them killed without a high cost or risk of prosecution.
It is almost impossible to have an animal killed on farm for human consumption unless you eat it yourself.

There are so few abattoirs left that most will not take casualties and even if they did you lay yourself open to prosecution for transporting an unfit animal.
The costs of deadstock removal in some areas is excessive and unreliable which all add to the risks of animal welfare issues.

I do wonder how many of the critics of Halal and Kosher slaughter have seen it for themselves other than in a Peta video.
Perhaps all people who keep livestock should at least see their animals slaughtered or even work in an abattoir.

 

[kiwi pom]

You are absolutely correct and how many injured, lame or just poor doers because of past management get left on farms because there isn't a way of getting them killed without a high cost or risk of prosecution.
It is almost impossible to have an animal killed on farm for human consumption unless you eat it yourself.

There are so few abattoirs left that most will not take casualties and even if they did you lay yourself open to prosecution for transporting an unfit animal.
The costs of deadstock removal in some areas is excessive and unreliable which all add to the risks of animal welfare issues.

I do wonder how many of the critics of Halal and Kosher slaughter have seen it for themselves other than in a Peta video.
Perhaps all people who keep livestock should at least see their animals slaughtered or even work in an abattoir.

I might go a little further and suggest if this really is a major issue for stock farmers (and I don't believe it is) farmer owned abattoirs should become a bigger part of the chain to show people how things should be done.
TFF is full of all kinds of diversifications and threads about buying rentals, building industrial units and investing elsewhere.
Why not get involved with the chain if those currently doing it are so bad. There seem to be people keen on commercial grain storage, pack houses, dairy processing etc.
Why not abattoirs?

I completely agree folks should see their stock killed once in a while.

 

[devonbeef]

You are absolutely correct and how many injured, lame or just poor doers because of past management get left on farms because there isn't a way of getting them killed without a high cost or risk of prosecution.
It is almost impossible to have an animal killed on farm for human consumption unless you eat it yourself.

There are so few abattoirs left that most will not take casualties and even if they did you lay yourself open to prosecution for transporting an unfit animal.
The costs of deadstock removal in some areas is excessive and unreliable which all add to the risks of animal welfare issues.

I do wonder how many of the critics of Halal and Kosher slaughter have seen it for themselves other than in a Peta video.
Perhaps all people who keep livestock should at least see their animals slaughtered or even work in an abattoir.

you are now painting a picture a public forum that it is widespread and common to leave ill , injured and poor doers on livestock farms across uk? , in my experience of myself and fellow farms in the 3 areas of southwest i have/had had farms is far far from this, the animal comes first if needs vet attention or to be put down it is just done. I for one very much distance myself from viewpoint, can not afford to put a animal down , time to ring the auctioneer i would say .

And as far as stun or non stun goes and yes i have watched slaughter of my stock , i would say even if it saves a second of less pain in a slaughtered animal then the right thing to morally do is whichever is less suffering ,
In my eyes that is stunning, you and others here disagree, we will have to agree to disagree,

I have finished commenting on this now,over and out

 

[johnb5555]

Who is the OP......

Non farming you tube channel

Don't think animal welfare is his main priority

https://x.com/On_The_News_Ltd/status/1783193018478039240