Barn conversion heating / hot water

[Hay Farmer]

I will be starting work on converting a stone barn into holiday cottages after harvest. What heating and hot water system should I go for? Architect says just bang an oil fired combi in, but I'm keen to minimise future heating bills.

Also - I'm certain my metropolitan Guardian reading customers would enjoy buying firewood off me and would hate paying for oil / elec charges.

So, obviously lots of insulation, but then what? Solar thermal, log burner with back boiler connected to a thermal store and underfloor heating. Immersion heater backup?

Not fussed about collecting subs and will be fitting the system myself (with plumber and electrician).

Any advice / experience?

Many thanks.

 

[Doing it for the kids]

How big is this barn? They can use a lot of heat and be hard to insulate well

Options include

Ashp
Gshp
Biomass - chip or pellet probably
Something wood based, wood burner with back box
Pv to help with HW and electric consumption.

I would get an energy consultant to come out and go through your options. Holiday folk like it warm and not all of the above will work well.

I wouldn't be surprised if an oil burner gets installed to help with what ever you decide!

What ever you do get a good control system which you can turn off easily perhaps by email / text, once they go.

 

[SilliamWhale]

I would also stick with oil combi. But if you insulate it very well it won't use silly amounts of oil. Its cheap, effective and reliable. If you were well insulated enough maybe an investment in the Hive type heating controls would pay off and you you control via wifi?

Fwiw I always provide free wood for the holiday cottages as it saves me on oil anyway.

What are current insulation specifications? Beware cold bridges!

 

[Doing it for the kids]

Good point.

You would be amazed how many can't light a fire though! Lots of firelightrrs needed!

 

[renewablejohn]

Insulate to Passive house standards and you wont need a heating system. Maybe a wood stove as a focal point on a chilly night.

 

[Still Farming]

Planning-building regs.are mad on insulation these days so much that on small barn convertions this reduces the floor area greatly !
Do your heating calcs. and you be surprised how small a system you need as the paying guests be leaving windows open !
"They paid for it " so they be having it -we know all about it as been there -worn the T shirt out .
If doing it yourself get good advise as ALL will have to be signed off - if public are using it !!!

 

[Pilgrimmick]

If possible go for the biomass option with RHI, then when the punters ramp up the heating you are earning more, not losing profit!

 

[Doing it for the kids]

Insulate to Passive house standards and you wont need a heating system. Maybe a wood stove as a focal point on a chilly night.

Well yes this is the ultimate and easy on a new build but less so on a barn conversion. We don't know how big or if it's listed but if I mentioned insulating our barn to try to get anything like passive standard they would laugh at me.

With insulation there comes a point were that extra bit costs more than it's worth. That line moves much depending on each build

 

[Doing it for the kids]

If possible go for the biomass option with RHI, then when the punters ramp up the heating you are earning more, not losing profit!

I think those days have gone now unless talking big systems.

Domestic RHI may still be a runner I think

 

[Pilgrimmick]

Domestic only runs for seven years, non-domestic for twenty! If barn is near your house run the whole shebang on the one system, bigger system, more profit.

 

[Doing it for the kids]

Sub 200 kw barely stacks up now and means he has to spend a whole load more to convert other buildings.

If he went for a big system on straw or grade A then that's another matter....

 

[Hay Farmer]

Cheers for the all help, the barn is 126m2 per floor. 2 floors high.

 

[Hay Farmer]

Farmhouse next door plus future 2nd holiday let so could go for a biomass system.

 

[phillipe]

Is it only showers,if so gas Combi and bury the gas tank,insulate properly,don't go down the renewables route unless you have money to burn,insulate insulate ,running costs will be minimal and installation costs kept down

 

[Adeptandy]

Avoid a combi, not as reliable as a system, and who wants the heating system breaking down with punters in, quickest way to get a bad review [emoji6] if you really want to go combi, put electric showers in, and good ones, currently in a holiday cottage, 2 good electric showers and everyone's happy, and don't charge for heating on a day rate, really annoys the hell out of punters [emoji6] and keep the heating controls simple, 95% of people can only work a thermostat, anything else is a dark art to them [emoji23][emoji23]
Definitely stick a wood burner in, and go LPG, Calor will put the tank in for free ( provided you sign up for 2 years ) and gas boilers are 1/2 the price of oil and you save £1k on an oil tank on top [emoji41]

 

[mrzippy]

The last conversion like this we did for a client here in Brittany started off with a large thermal store (tank) being fed by vacuum tube solar heaters to give 1000L/day of 55° water....pumping into underfloor heating etc. The tube pump is fed by a solar PV panel!! (also feeds excess into the pool in summer!) they then later went for some PV panels and a small wind turbine to feed the house in an interactive grid manner, as here there are NO FITS for wind since 15/07/2007

 

[hedger7050]

We've converted a similar size barn but it was an atcost concrete portal cattle shed that I'm now living in. All we have is an air source heat pump doing all hot water and under floor heating and wood burner. UFH is all controlled of stats. So never comes on when wood burners on and with 2 of us living there we've never run out of hot water.
You could put an electric emersion in as back up just incase as well. As others have said go overboard on insulation and it will save you money in the long run.

 

[Stuckingeneva]

Ground source heat pump and UFH if you have the land. Cost us £7 a week in electricity for all hot water and heating in a four bed house. And you get RHI payments which will pay most of the installation costs. House is well insulated mind.

 

[phillipe]

Avoid a combi, not as reliable as a system, and who wants the heating system breaking down with punters in, quickest way to get a bad review [emoji6] if you really want to go combi, put electric showers in, and good ones, currently in a holiday cottage, 2 good electric showers and everyone's happy, and don't charge for heating on a day rate, really annoys the hell out of punters [emoji6] and keep the heating controls simple, 95% of people can only work a thermostat, anything else is a dark art to them [emoji23][emoji23]
Definitely stick a wood burner in, and go LPG, Calor will put the tank in for free ( provided you sign up for 2 years ) and gas boilers are 1/2 the price of oil and you save £1k on an oil tank on top [emoji41]

I know what you mean,but electric showers break down as well ,put a reasonable make of boiler in ie a Worcester with 5 years warranty you won't go far wrong

 

[f0ster]

the worcester combi is not a good option as combis go. it has its own internal water tank which it keeps hot all of the time by continually firing up every time 20 mins, this process wastes a lot of fuel, if you go for under floor heating remember it is slow to heat up especially if it is set in concrete, where as rads will show heat in 10 mins,