Big changes ahead then

When I started on the farm as a 17 year old in 1961, although we didn't use them, there were straights such as decorticated cotton cake, locust beans and others that I can't recall. Are they still produced?

Apart from soya grown on ex rainforest land, what's wrong with it?
 
A second winter , why not
I prefer them gone quicker, if cattle stay here for a second winter it means we have 50% more cattle to winter.
I think that feeding half a tonne of barley while at grass to get cattle finished quicker is cheaper than a second winter, as 100 quid won't go far on wintering costs and potentially another summer.
 
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Of course, export our problems by importing OSR from countries that still use neonics. 👍

With the way I farm currently, a complete ban on soya wouldn’t affect me at all tbh. However, it will dramatically affect more intensive systems, which are the ones that provide more food per ha and, in the case of pigs & poultry, more efficiently/at lower cost.

It will mean less efficient and higher cost animal production then, you agree?

Why should we care though? People are happy to blow £50/month on the latest iphone but won't pay £2.50 for a pack of bacon?
 
When I started on the farm as a 17 year old in 1961, although we didn't use them, there were straights such as decorticated cotton cake, locust beans and others that I can't recall. Are they still produced?

Apart from soya grown on ex rainforest land, what's wrong with it?

I suspect cottonseed and locust beans and the like are still produced, just not imported as there are other things about.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
It will mean less efficient and higher cost animal production then, you agree?

Why should we care though? People are happy to blow £50/month on the latest iphone but won't pay £2.50 for a pack of bacon?
Because as with most other goods, cost of production here in the U.K. will become uncompetitive and they will just import meat from abroad where they don’t bother with such self imposed constraints.
You can’t have it both ways. You can’t say “don’t nationalise the fertiliser plants” (because that would be interfering in the free market) while at the same time restrict soya imports (which is just as much interfering in the free market).
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
At a basic mathematical level an animal uses half its feed for maintenance and half for putting on meat. The longer you keep the animal the more carbon is wasted just on maintenance. So arguably the quicker you finish the animal, tge lower the carbon footprint per kg of meat and also the more chance you have of turning a profit. So I really can’t see that winding back the clock to finishing cattle at 2 years old is going to do us any favours except in certain sieciak circumstances.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Lupins have more potential and would work if they really had to. We tried them here. Combined in October, took a lot of fuel to dry them, then 30% protein instead of 40% for soya. It could be argued a bag of hi pro soya meal is just as environmentally friendly particularly as it’s a by product.
Not all soya is grown on burnt down rain forests. Some of ours comes from Italy but the quality isn’t quite as good as the GM South American product.
Why do we insist on making life so difficult for the flimsiest of reasons.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
At a basic mathematical level an animal uses half its feed for maintenance and half for putting on meat. The longer you keep the animal the more carbon is wasted just on maintenance. So arguably the quicker you finish the animal, tge lower the carbon footprint per kg of meat and also the more chance you have of turning a profit. So I really can’t see that winding back the clock to finishing cattle at 2 years old is going to do us any favours except in certain sieciak circumstances.

Err, what? :scratchhead:

They don’t use half their feed for production, apart from in the very limited circumstances where they are fed double their maintenance requirements. They use a set amount for maintenance, dependant on weight, breed, etc, then any surplus over that is used for production.

The faster finishing will only result in a lower carbon footprint if the extra energy density of any feed has been produced (& transported/fed) with a lower carbon footprint than the lower density feed they would have on a less intense system.
Feeding grain and soya, carted in and fed mechanically in a shed, may well finish an animal faster. However, grass and forage, grown and utilised on the farm by the animal itself, will likely have a negative footprint, or close to it.

There is certainly room to improve production efficiency through genetics, but not if it means animals then NEED to have high carbon footprint feeds in order to grow and finish.
That is where the NBA’s stance is incorrect, and overly simplistic.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Lupins have more potential and would work if they really had to. We tried them here. Combined in October, took a lot of fuel to dry them, then 30% protein instead of 40% for soya. It could be argued a bag of hi pro soya meal is just as environmentally friendly particularly as it’s a by product.
Not all soya is grown on burnt down rain forests. Some of ours comes from Italy but the quality isn’t quite as good as the GM South American product.
Why do we insist on making life so difficult for the flimsiest of reasons.

I did my first project at Harper on Lupins, back in 1987. They were the next big thing then, with huge potential as a protein source in ruminant feed.
There’s a reason they’ve not taken over in the 34 years since.
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
Err, what? :scratchhead:

They don’t use half their feed for production, apart from in the very limited circumstances where they are fed double their maintenance requirements. They use a set amount for maintenance, dependant on weight, breed, etc, then any surplus over that is used for production.

The faster finishing will only result in a lower carbon footprint if the extra energy density of any feed has been produced (& transported/fed) with a lower carbon footprint than the lower density feed they would have on a less intense system.
Feeding grain and soya, carted in and fed mechanically in a shed, may well finish an animal faster. However, grass and forage, grown and utilised on the farm by the animal itself, will likely have a negative footprint, or close to it.

There is certainly room to improve production efficiency through genetics, but not if it means animals then NEED to have high carbon footprint feeds in order to grow and finish.
That is where the NBA’s stance is incorrect, and overly simplistic.
And do the intensive finishing units have any less cattle in total on their farms at any one time? If not then they are still emitting as much methane surely?

They finish them faster but just keep more of them to counter that.
 

Ceri

Member
I got a neighbour who grows lupins as a protein source for his sheep & cattle, has done for years & he jus cannot understand why more people don't grow it.... I give him his due he's a small traditional upland beef sheep & arable farm not overstocked but super keen, fattens all his lambs & cattle and totally self sufficient in doing so. I've always really admired him & I'm guessing his carbon footprint is pretty low. A model more of us should probably follow
 
Location
Cheshire
At a basic mathematical level an animal uses half its feed for maintenance and half for putting on meat. The longer you keep the animal the more carbon is wasted just on maintenance. So arguably the quicker you finish the animal, tge lower the carbon footprint per kg of meat and also the more chance you have of turning a profit. So I really can’t see that winding back the clock to finishing cattle at 2 years old is going to do us any favours except in certain sieciak circumstances.
The carbon argument for shorter finishing is largely methane based, so highly dependant on the calculation methodology employed. To the point where grass feeding could be a carbon negative period on some scales.
 

Kevtherev

Member
Location
Welshpool Powys
The carbon argument for shorter finishing is largely methane based, so highly dependant on the calculation methodology employed. To the point where grass feeding could be a carbon negative period on some scales.
Does that apply to the vast American and Brazilian feed lots though or is it just the Uk that beef production intensively is frowned upon by the government?
Can’t see how us being forced to be ‘net zero’ yet other countries production remaining largely unchanged and exports continue as before.
 

Kevtherev

Member
Location
Welshpool Powys
That vs that
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