Blackgrass control using grass ley

[focussed]

Got some bad blackgrass areas and plan was for spring barley. I am toying with the idea of putting a grass ley on 20 acres or so of it. I have some sheep and would graze it and top it if necessary. Maybe get some hay off it.

- would it work?
- how long should the ley be?
- variety advice?
- anyone tried it?
- after the ley is finished go straight into it with zero till?

Happy New Year all and thanks for the advice.

 

[solo]

Have used grass as a break crop on some of my land. Mowing and tight grazing is key to prevent seed return in the early years. 3 year ley and blackgrass was back within the first crop and normal levels in following crops. 5 year ley was the best and had a couple of low population years before numbers got away again (the wet Autumn 2010 didn't help with timely sprays though) Variety was two prg varieties and white clover. Plough, power Harrow, drill and roll afterwards. Glyphosate didn't work well on clover pre plough.

 

[focussed]

Won't the ploughing undo your good work by turning over new seed after the grass had smothered out the BG at the top of the profile?

 

[franklin]

Got some bad blackgrass areas and plan was for spring barley. I am toying with the idea of putting a grass ley on 20 acres or so of it. I have some sheep and would graze it and top it if necessary. Maybe get some hay off it.

- would it work?
- how long should the ley be?
- variety advice?
- anyone tried it?
- after the ley is finished go straight into it with zero till?

Happy New Year all and thanks for the advice.

We are grassing areas down, partly in response to BG. Think about why you have BG, and what your rotation with grass will be.

Would it work? Yes. Yes are cleaning the soil.
How long? Well, we have tried a one-year ley and it has worked well - not so much for the grass, although a year with nil seed return is nice - but for the drying of the soil and being able to get it ploughed really well and make a cracking stale seedbed.
Variety? We used a @Great In Grass mix of ryegrasses which is marketted as a mix for using after maize.

No idea on the zero till. I suppose it will all depend on how long the grass is down for; how deep you have mixed the BG in through the years; what crop you are following the grass with. The longer you leave the grass the more grubs there will be waiting to eat your wheat. I ploughed the ley up, smashed it to bits and rolled it tight - first time ploughed since 2007 - and there was still BG in the stale seedbed. But the big perk is the legnthening of the rotation and reduction in reliance of the same chem each year. I will follow mine with OSR in future.

My own 2p is that, if you find your grass grows well, and you can make a bob or two from it, then it may as well stay as grass. Certainly wouldnt make hay as BG seed will be set by then. Silage only or graze. Or both.

3yr grass fb OSR, WW, spring crop then back to grass would work well here I think.

 

[rob1]

The best control I found was DD'ing grass in the spring after allowing any seed on the surface to grow, left it in for two seasons and has done well so far, grew one WW and now going into spring cereal, might try spring oats as the stubble is really clean at the moment

 

[yellow belly]

any grass ley will help
but when you return to wheat and rape bg will need to be kept at low levels by timely use of pre ems and drilling date and stale seed beds

ploughing out 2 or3 years grass will virtually eliminate bg in the 1 wheat crop but it only takes a few plants per acre to let it back in within 3 years

the problem is economic use of the grass but if you have sheep any way
spring barley followed by grass would be a good rotation

 

[focussed]

The best control I found was DD'ing grass in the spring after allowing any seed on the surface to grow, left it in for two seasons and has done well so far, grew one WW and now going into spring cereal, might try spring oats as the stubble is really clean at the moment

Do you Always DD?

 

[rob1]

I do now .

 

[focussed]

I do now .

How is it working out for you? What drill do you use?

 

[Andrew K]

If you sow grass in autumn [ryegrass] you have the option of using ethofumesate[Nortron] which has good activity on blackgrass in my experience.Use pre em or early post emergence if you can.
I would aim to chit as much BG as poss after harvest and then spray off and drill in mid sept,.Use plenty of seed and get growth of Ryegrass going early in Spring

 

[Gong Farmer]

Used to be three years ley was enough to 'get rid of' black-grass, wouldn't be surprised if the requirement is now longer. As said, only a few survivors will get it back to what it was before the grass in no time, so you can't be complacent, need to start spraying like billy-o from the off.

 

[Hindsight]

If you sow grass in autumn [ryegrass] you have the option of using ethofumesate[Nortron] which has good activity on blackgrass in my experience.Use pre em or early post emergence if you can.
I would aim to chit as much BG as poss after harvest and then spray off and drill in mid sept,.Use plenty of seed and get growth of Ryegrass going early in Spring

Sorry to be a pain but I thought although Ethofumesate is safe on Ryegrass product labels legal approval is for use on grass seed crops and amenity grassland. That is not to say of course your ryegrass ley is for seed - and maybe amenity use?!

 

[Great In Grass]

Choose the right grass mixture and sown before the end of September you will have (if required) grass to graze before very long and grass growth if temperatures are above 3dC.

 

[Andrew K]

Sorry to be a pain but I thought although Ethofumesate is safe on Ryegrass product labels legal approval is for use on grass seed crops and amenity grassland. That is not to say of course your ryegrass ley is for seed - and maybe amenity use?!

Think you would have to use Ethofumesate as Leyclene to be strictly legal if that is still available?

 

[Hindsight]

Think you would have to use Ethofumesate as Leyclene to be strictly legal if that is still available?

Yes, but afraid leyclene (included ioxynil) approval ended in 2008. Currently only straight ethofumesate products available which have approval restricted to amenity grass and grass for seed. Care with the paperwork.

 

[Andrew K]

Best include some amenity grass seed then....

 

[solo]

Won't the ploughing undo your good work by turning over new seed after the grass had smothered out the BG at the top of the profile?

In theory any blackgrass seed should lose it's viability by 80% each year it is left buried deep. Ploughing is the best tool i have available for the small area of blackgrass land i have. I don't have a direct drill and the clover can be quite persistant. After 3 to 5 years there shouldn't be a lot of seed vigour left but having said that i have seen rogue ryegrass grow 7 years later in a seed crop which wasn't easily remedied either.

 

[Formatted]

Couple of people we graze for down here have found grass very successful and lucrative when you look at the reduced costs of planting and harvesting with renting it to a sheep or cattle guy for a few years. Electric fence is great at keeping sheep in these days.

 

[Tim W]

Couple of people we graze for down here have found grass very successful and lucrative when you look at the reduced costs of planting and harvesting with renting it to a sheep or cattle guy for a few years. Electric fence is great at keeping sheep in these days.

Same in this area---as BG gets to be a bigger pain croppers are looking to insert grass back into the rotation
This has been talked about for a number of years and the sticking point has always been economics, however the spread of BG, reduced returns from some arable crops and an interest in soil structure/improvement has meant that it now seems a cost efficient way of controlling BG
Negotiations between croppers and sheep graziers have usually broken down over money but we seem to be getting closer to making a deal now
How long are your guys keeping a ley in for @Formatted

 

[Formatted]

How long are your guys keeping a ley in for @Formatted

Least is 3 years of Rye grass used for hay which is being grazed in the winter and the other 4 years which we are grazing all year round.

If anyone is falling out over money send them my way, always up for large blocks of land.